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Bad Piston or Headgasket

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  #1  
Old 06-22-2018, 02:43 PM
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Bad Piston or Headgasket

Hey yall I have 2006 6.0 f250 XL. They are saying I have a bad turbo ( which is causing my random stalling and power loss) I rebuilt it this winter i could have done bad work but it is what it is. Now here is the kicker. Everytime my truck stalls which is random (never idle) under load,coasting or braking it will take 5-10 minutes to start again. I will have no base oil pressure until the 3rd or 4th long crank. Then it will try to start then it will after it reads base oil pressure. But during this whole process 100% of the time after stalling i will not have Injector clatter, but it will still start after sitting and long cranking. My ficm test good during this whole process and my ipr is good never above 50 for some reason and never 15. Always sitting around 30(just replaced that along with stc fitting) My icp is bad but unplugged waiting on new one. SO this is all happening while icp is unplugged.
Now they are telling me i have either a bad piston or headgasket. My coolant is fine no white around lid or coolant loss. I thought it was bad injector but it passed on buzz test for them. I also have blow back coming out of oil dipstick, which has been the case the entire time i have had the truck. They don't think the engine is going to last to much longer. Now before i tear into this thing do these sound about right? And or if im missing something before i start this project of engine tear down? Any special tools needed? I will be throwing studs in ( already have delete and new oil cooler) i will add stand pipes and dummy plugs. Mainly im still worried about random stalling and no injector clatter, and if the piston and headgasket seem right

Thanks for your time
 
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Old 06-22-2018, 06:15 PM
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You have alot going on here
This is something a shop could string you along and you end up huge repair bill hope the shop is honest

A turbo issue could cause blow by and stimulate a bad piston because it's reliant on turbo intake suction being CCV may not operate correctly because of turbo issue

Bad Hg or Over boost causes puke of coolant

how bad is blow by out the oil filler cap at idle and does it become really excessive under higher rpm

Some folks report small amounts of blowby and are just fine

How many miles

Cylinder contribution or cylinder compression test could do leak down test
 
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Old 06-23-2018, 06:08 PM
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Thanks for the response! He said he would swap the turbo out and only charge for labor ( grew up with him) but advised to wait and see if we wanted to fix it.

1. No puke of coolant or coolant loss, or just plain old missing coolant.

2.Blow by out the oil fill is not bad barely visible and not enough to blow off the cap (i remember redneck way of testing) It has always blown a steady stream out the dipstick however.

3.190,000k I have put on 20,000 of them with constant oil changes and oil/fuel filter changes, along with archoil additive, and most recently hot shots extreme injecter cleaner. The week before all of this started happening)

4. I am taking it to ford this upcoming tuesday and asked for a diesel mechanic to be the tech. really want to nail this all down.

5. I had the contribution code for #4 but have not heard about any or if they did a test. I will ask the tech on tuesday

To many odd things like a slight knock from which appears to be front drivers side, which dissappears when accelereating and appears again when coming to a stop. I feel like everything just crapped out all at once on me. This winter with the delete and oil cooler swap along with turbo rebuild it ran amazing!.

Thanks again for responding,stressing me out on what i need to repair or if it's just not worth it at all to do so.

Also what would i need to do the cylinder test myself, I get antsy and usually prefer to find and fix things myself!!
 
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Old 06-23-2018, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Wrabek View Post
Thanks

3.190,000k I have put on 20,000 of them with constant oil changes and oil/fuel filter changes, along with archoil additive, and most recently hot shots extreme injecter cleaner. The week before all of this started happening)
myself!!


Was injector cleaner mixed with the fuel or oil

im going to guess fuel
It's suspect



Is there any smoke during knocking sound

Sounds like bad injector there is potential to wipe a piston usually smoking steady out exhaust and especially during fuel knocking event created by a bad injector there should be smoke out exhaust


Why is turbo suspect of failure

Follow the DTC for contribution the computer flagged it not the turbo

Cylinder number 4 is on drivers side vehicle where you say it's loudest

Unless I'm missing something
 
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Old 06-23-2018, 07:43 PM
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Cleaner was mixed with fuel, no smoke that i can tell maybe minimal, besides light grey smoke on start up. To me it was a sure fire thing of bad injector has a miss and runs rough. Especially with the bogging down a few times like running out of fuel figured it if not more were shot to crap.

They said how it sounds while revving it up. I informed them i grinded/ cleaned plates rebuilt/ replaced everything i could (unison ring, vanes, bearings, seals, and a new actuator) this winter but they are 100% convinced bad turbo.

When I get home from missouri I will run it until knock and check for smoke. On that note my exhaust broke off and I literally only have a down pipe. So i was worried about back pressure being a factor into this.
 
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Old 06-23-2018, 07:57 PM
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Research bubble test for injector

​​​​​​you just seam to be reporting classic injector failure symptoms plus the DTC a single DTC for contribution usually ends up bad injector or valve train failure or piston fail from bad inject


Is your egr valve plugged in I understand it's deleted but to what extent
 
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:07 PM
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As for the injector i was banking on that, was literally blown away when he called me and said headgasket or piston. Makes me think he didn't actually test them. But we will know more tuesday once the ford guys take a look.

I have new up-pipe and egr valve still plugged in because if i remember correctly i read it was causing random ghost problems for people. I do have the plate to cover it still if need be.

From my research im looking at new injector, ficm, and or turbo. I think a problem might be these guys aren't the guys that work on only powerstrokes, so maybe not knowing some of the odd ball problems. But could a turbo really be causing my random stalling?? I believe the loss of power and but stalling 100% of the time? Some time it fights it, other time it is as if you turned the key.

Thanks again for your time!
 
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Old 06-23-2018, 08:43 PM
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You might check you local FTE chapter and see if someone has a VCM2 and if they do they can run a relative compression test for starters.
Then the next test to run would be an uncompensated power balance test. Lastly you should remove the oil pressure gauge and see what you
getting for pressure when cranking. If you have an injector dumping raw fuel you could dilute the oil and that can harm a turbo.

Now I have given you all the worst case things to look at. Like Benny said do the bubble test. It's free and only takes a little time. Infact if you
remove the stand pipe from the fuel bowl you can look to see what side of the port it's coming from if you have bubbles. If you remove the stand
pipe you will see what looks like 2 D' back to back. One goes to the left bank and the other to the right. If you have bubbles and once you know the
side you remove the glow plugs on that side and put one in at a time and retest. Do that for all 4 cylinders and don't stop if you find one that bubbles.
You want to finish the full set on the side just in case you have more than one.
 
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Old 06-23-2018, 09:29 PM
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Thanks!! I will do that right when I get back in town!! Also I have tried cranking with just the starter wire it sounds even. There is no drop or higher pitch in the cranking, it stays even and healthy. From the Diesel Tech Ron video good chance of not being a base engine problem correct? Since its even compression, I'm just a simple backyard DIYer but I try to be as thorough as possible!

On to my last question for the time being, the no injector clatter after stalls tells me ficm is bad/going bad or electrical problem in harness, now could that be causing my problems with the stalling?
 
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Old 06-23-2018, 09:58 PM
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Could be. One easy and not too spendy things to try is the FICM relay.
It's not you normal automotive relay do to the higher current.

Here are the fuse and relay diagrams. You want the BJB under the hood.
 
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Old 06-23-2018, 10:16 PM
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Thank you! I saw 6.0 doctors video on testing the relay, when I get home i'll report my findings on all the tests, and double check for chaffing on wires, and all fuses. I'll bring up the compression tests and how an injector could pass buzz test because electrically it is good but mechanically it is shot. Just been stressful past month looking at 10k rebuild.....

Thank you guys for your time and information! I'll report back when I get back into town.
 
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Old 06-29-2018, 09:21 AM
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Welp, they gave me an estimate upwards of 20k lol. Whole new engine is needed! Bad bearing and something about my coolant is acting as liquid sandpaper on it. So anybody have a used
motor lying around lol. ****...
 
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Old 06-29-2018, 11:34 AM
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It's $20K because ford will only do a ford engine, which is insanely overpriced. There's no way I'd do that. I'd look into a rebuilt/reman'd engine from someone like asheville engines if you're keeping the truck, or tear down your engine and see if it's rebuildable. Even if you pay someone to install it, you'll be cutting that $20K down to under $10k.

https://ashevilleengine.com/product/6-0-powerstroke/
 
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Old 06-29-2018, 04:10 PM
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Thanks! I just went and got it and talked to them. They just said coolant is leaking into case and bearing or rod is knocking they said it could be a gasket or thrashed engine. So I won’t know until I tear into it and see what’s going on down there, maybe luck out for a short block! Also 14k of that 20k was an engine holy hell!
 
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Old 06-29-2018, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Wrabek View Post
Welp, they gave me an estimate upwards of 20k lol. Whole new engine is needed! Bad bearing and something about my coolant is acting as liquid sandpaper on it. So anybody have a used
motor lying around lol. ****...
Even a full dress enging is not 20K from ford if you get it from White Bear Lake.
That means that they are hitting you for 7K to diagnose and install. A tad bit high.

Heck if you were next door I would do the install of a full dress for 2K plus any
added parts or materials.
 
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