05 F-150, 5.4 Lariat Bent Rod #1 cylinder. - Page 30 - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

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05 F-150, 5.4 Lariat Bent Rod #1 cylinder.

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05 F-150, 5.4 Lariat Bent Rod #1 cylinder.

  #436  
Old 11-09-2018, 09:39 AM
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Thanks 70f, I am picking up the truck today a noon. I know, I literally gave them a print out of all the work that was done and specified exactly what I wanted to be done as outlined by @torgued in post 422, I am sure as soon as they found out I did the timing they threw me to the curb. $125 for 5 min work is what $1,500/hr nice to see they are so helpful. Anyways this weekend I will do the manual comp test and post the results. If I can't get this thing figured out, I may take you up the road trip. It's a 3.5 hr trip from Chesapeake but my wife is from Danville VA. Might do that for a weekend.
 
  #437  
Old 11-09-2018, 01:43 PM
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Here's the report from Cavalier Ford.

 
  #438  
Old 11-09-2018, 02:50 PM
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I still dont think its out of time. The tech could have checked if it was in time with the scan tool by watching the VCT readings. I'm at a loss as to why he didnt. It was literally a few mouse clicks away.
 
  #439  
Old 11-09-2018, 03:03 PM
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I may be a little too old school with my terminology, but my understanding is that a “cylinder balance test” measures how much a cylinder is contributing to the engine’s power and is done with the engine running. I know some of the earlier ECMs could perform this test by stabilizing the engine rpm and then sequentially shutting down each fuel injector and measuring the rpm drop to figure out which cylinders are and arn’t Contributing to engine power. (Old school method was to pull each spark plug wire and listen for change in engine sound. No change in sound equals not contributing to engine power.) I’m wondering if this is what the tech did and indicated the percentage of power loss on each of cyl five through eight.

I think what should have been done is a “relative compression test where an amp clamp is placed around the starter cable and with the fuel system disabled and the engine is cranked. A scope is used to graph the current draw of the starter motor. High peaks on the graph equal high current draw equal higher compression for a cylinder and low peaks on the graph equal low current draw which equals lower compression for a cylinder.

The relative compression test checks the mechanical (including cam timing) operation of the engine, while the cylinder balance test checks the output of each cylinder (which can be effected by things like spark plugs, coils, injectors, fuel pressure, and on and on as well as cam timing.)

Returning now to your regularly scheduled discussion...............
 
  #440  
Old 11-10-2018, 03:43 AM
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Curious to know all compression readings all 8

I know you got adapter I saved info in case I ever need it . Is it good to go on a 3.5 hour trip .
 
  #441  
Old 11-10-2018, 11:26 AM
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Couple of thoughts from the other old school fart on this forum ----haha --- (Hi @pdqford) I agree about the benefit(s) / disadvantage(s) of the two tests. But in NEW SCHOOL terms, IF the idiots at the dealership did the power balance test about half right - the other variables are cylinder independent enough they should not be effecting all cylinders on one bank in a roughly equal amount - from 2% to 6%. Even a 'relative compression test' would be dependent on the hydraulic disconnect between cam position (sensed by phaser fingers) <> phaser gear/chain.

It is worthy of note: IT _IS POSSIBLE_ for this condition to register misfires DTCs - when it is _NOT_ actually / technically an absence of fuel/air detonation. The misfire algorithm is driven by detection of lack of 'acceleration' in crankshaft rotational speed when ignition is 'commanded' by the PCM (firing the COP). Well - the power balance test indicates that is happening to some degree. I do not know what the 'threshold' is where the PCM determines a cylinder didn't kick the crankshaft along adequately. But cylinder #5 is 4% below normal (or average ??? IDK). Could that trigger the PCM's misfire logic.

Unfortunately there are TWO mechanical causes for slightly low compression and low power balance on all cylinders of one bank and resulting rough idle. No matter how it is determined, there is little to no way to isolate the problem further - even with expensive equipment (scope or IDS). 1). If chain is off a tooth or 2). If the Phaser is defective (internals not fully advancing). Since the cam's actual position is determined by the position of phaser fingers - directly connected to CAM, leaves the assumption that phaser is locked at base (zero retard) position.

And you cannot verify timing like you suggested in post #430. Since the chain has screwy number of links as to gear ratios - the colored links only align on both phasers / and crank dot once every 122 crankshaft revolutions - and THAT assumes they were correctly aligned upon installation. Crank dot cannot be seen when assembled (even with oil pan removed) because tone ring fits right up against crank sprocket.

I reviewed your video of cranking with valve cover off again - but could not tell from the viewing angle. When you had V/C off, did you happen to look carefully whether the 'fifth' phaser finger was aligned DIRECTLY over the 'L' timing mark on that phaser. Probably not, but that could provide a clue if we unfortunately got a defective phaser - or it is somehow internally jammed.

Also - if there is ANY way - I would love to see the OBDII PID for VCT2ERR and if the system is accumulating cam error in one direction - JUST below the DTC trigger level of 5 camshaft degrees. https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-pro-live.html THAT is the PCM's method of determining if the CAM is positioned where commanded by the PCM at the moment.
 
  #442  
Old 11-10-2018, 01:07 PM
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Wow Torqued, we can always count on you to tell it like it is. Recall when I was timing this thing the problem I had because the OH cams were reversed. Anyhow, here is the picture of the driver side phaser and chain after we got it right. Looks to me OK. Today I want to do a manual comp test "old school". What is the best to do this e.g., remove all plugs first......do I need to disconnect injectors? seriously do not want fuel in my cylinders when cranking. Can I do one bank at a time.....How should I do this with a guage?. Thank you all. @torqued good to here from you again even if it takes me a day to digest your superior advice

What a Saga.....but a litlle fun an definetly interesting.
 
  #443  
Old 11-10-2018, 01:56 PM
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Use 70f100longbed technique to run starter KEOff and no worries about injectors. Yes, I like all plugs out. Do them All - twice--one at a time (first dry, then wet - with a10_15 second blast of WD40 in/around cylinder.). Jot each reading down.
 
  #444  
Old 11-10-2018, 03:32 PM
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OK Well so far here is the results of the Dry test. I guess I agree the compression is uniform and lower across the board on bank 2 (Drivers side):
Drivers side. Let me know if I need to continue with the wet test?.......Drinking now ODU sucks this year
Cyl 5 - 175
Cyl 6 - 175
Cyl 7 - 175
Cyl 8 - 175
Passenger side
Cyl 4 - 210
Cyl 3 - 190
Cyl 2 - 190
Cyl 1- did not test yet. Not sure if I want to.

OMG, I am thinking I need to re-time this POS. Thinking about trading it in for a 2008 Toyota Tacoma. Just a thought. Please do not abandon me yet.
 
  #445  
Old 11-10-2018, 03:51 PM
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At only 1/8th the total effort expended - I would probably want to know what #1 came in at. But doing it again 'wet' would only add a slight indication if lower ones were loosing more past rings or valve seats. Your's look consistent enough I might forego that (subject to what others are thinking). Curious - wonder WHY number 4 would be that much _more_ than the rest. Customarily one would expect to see one slightly low. NOT one 10+% _HIGHER_. That's not the one that got the new rod installed on it - is it. I was thinking number 1. (Is that why you don't want to check #1?). I would definitely do it.
 
  #446  
Old 11-10-2018, 03:55 PM
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@torqued, yes number one was the replaced rod. It's such a nightmare to get to so I was hoping we had enough info but if it helps I'll go do it and recheck # 4 also.
What do you mean
At only 1/8th the total effort expended
. Do you mean 7/8 expended and 1/8 to go?
 
  #447  
Old 11-10-2018, 04:27 PM
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I'm curious what the wet readings will be.
 
  #448  
Old 11-10-2018, 04:28 PM
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OK doing it now.
 
  #449  
Old 11-10-2018, 04:59 PM
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OK so got thru the wet test on the driver side but the battery is dying....recharging now. But, this is the results:
Drivers side wet test:
Cyl 5 - 185 rest , 200 peak
Cyl 6 - 200 rest, 205 peak
Cyl 7 - 210 rest, 225 peak
Cyl 8 - 175 rest, 175 peak ( battery dying)
 
  #450  
Old 11-10-2018, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by gamboni View Post
...

What do you mean . Do you mean 7/8 expended and 1/8 to go?
Yup. that's where I was coming from. I know you've expended plenty so far. But now's not the time to cut corners by 1/8th.

In my (not overly expansive) experience - that is a pretty good difference between wet/dry readings. But 175 on every single one was somewhat exceptional too. Your thoughts @70F100longbed.

The photo of bank 2 phaser looks fine - at install any way. But NOW is what's important if we have consistently lower compression on bank 2.

 

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