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SD Noob. Be gentle. :)

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Old 06-12-2018, 10:33 PM
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SD Noob. Be gentle. :)

Hello all. I have no idea why I just found this page as I've been a long-time Ford owner. But, I am now a member and was hoping for a knowledge dump.

I'm in the market for a 250 or 350. I need a tow vehicle and it will also be used for my primary DD. I always heard that the Powerstroke was better(?), so that's what I think I'm in the market for but was hoping to get more information here before purchasing. I was wondering when the 2019 models will be released as I'm hoping to get a 2018 or even 2017 with good incentives from the dealer. Also, I hope to pay cash as I have the opportunity and hate a car note.

Basic requirements: Supercrew, 4x4, non-DRW, probably the shorter bed and I like the 40/20/40 bench seat so my girlfriend can sit close.

So, 250 vs 350? 2017 vs 2018? Diesel vs Gas? Now or later?

Looking forward to everyone's advice. I searched the threads for some of this information and found a lot of speculation, so I was hoping to get these specific items addressed.

Thanks!!!
 
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Old 06-12-2018, 10:39 PM
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You need to know what you want. 250 rides slightly better but is legally capped at 10k gvwr which limits payload...particularly with the diesel. The 350 generally has +1200lbs payload over a 250, trim level for trim level.

Gas vs diesel? Sure, the Powerstroke is “better” in the sense that it has more power and torque. But it costs +$9000 more and has more expensive maintenance and possibly massive out of warranty repair costs.

Virtually no difference between model years. 2018 models have +10hp and +10lb-ft for marketing purposes.
 
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Old 06-12-2018, 10:43 PM
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Thank you. I will be linking and caging my Raptor for strictly offroad use. So, I will be towing that through the mountains and down to Mexico a few times a year. I tow my boat and a cargo trailer with my F150, but the truck/trailer I'll be towing pushes me into a SD. I'm sure a 250 would be fine for this as I've seen it done, but I was wondering if i should just go for a 350. It's good to know that the 250 rides slightly better than the 350 as it will be used a lot for DD. Are there usually good incentives for older model years once the newer model year is released? If so, when does that typically occur? Thanks again!
 
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Old 06-12-2018, 11:04 PM
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If you were to special order the truck, most people would recommend you spend the extra $1k and just get the F-350. The problem is if you're buying something off the lot, there seems to be 10x more F-250's than F-350's so it may be harder to find and/or limit your options.

The ride difference between the F-250 and F-350 is negligible. I just went from an F-150 to an F-350, and I can't say the ride is that much rougher. At least not rough enough to bother you.

There aren't great incentives out there on these trucks, even on the 2017's which are nearly two model years old at this point. You can find a thread on here which will give you a link for a $3k Private Cash Offer from Ford, but you'll have to use that before July so it won't help you with a 2019. Other than that, $3,500 (maybe $5k depending on your zip) seems to be the only incentives on the 2017s. I dealt with dealers in at least 10 different states while in search for a good deal on a remaining '17 and what I learned is that that there are some great deals out there and some desperate dealers, but other's don't seem to be in any rush to get rid of the "old" truck and they aren't really offering anything special.
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:37 AM
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Hmm, you have a Raptor? I do as well! I've had 6 Super Duty trucks. I find the difference in ride quality between a 250 and 350 to be more pronounced on the 2017+ models than the previous generation. I really 2017 F-250. I've had several 350's both gas and diesel; you can't go wrong either way. I tow about 12k lbs max and the 250 handles it just fine.
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by MadeInDade View Post
If you were to special order the truck, most people would recommend you spend the extra $1k and just get the F-350. The problem is if you're buying something off the lot, there seems to be 10x more F-250's than F-350's so it may be harder to find and/or limit your options.

The ride difference between the F-250 and F-350 is negligible. I just went from an F-150 to an F-350, and I can't say the ride is that much rougher. At least not rough enough to bother you.

There aren't great incentives out there on these trucks, even on the 2017's which are nearly two model years old at this point. You can find a thread on here which will give you a link for a $3k Private Cash Offer from Ford, but you'll have to use that before July so it won't help you with a 2019. Other than that, $3,500 (maybe $5k depending on your zip) seems to be the only incentives on the 2017s. I dealt with dealers in at least 10 different states while in search for a good deal on a remaining '17 and what I learned is that that there are some great deals out there and some desperate dealers, but other's don't seem to be in any rush to get rid of the "old" truck and they aren't really offering anything special.
FYI, the PCOs are no longer being issued.
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:55 AM
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The main reason to buy a F250 is if you live in an area where the Government penalizes you for driving a truck rated at over 10,000 lbs. Very little difference in the ride.
Payload ratings jump 1100-1200 lbs for the F350

Finding a Supercab vs a CrewCab especially in a 2017 model will be tough. 70% of all Superduties are Crew Cab. I don't see many Supercabs.
CrewCab Long Bed is a long truck, I don't park in underground parking or downtown parking terraces So it's not a big deal for me. But if you think you might have tight parking, the shorter trucks are easier and get the camera package so you can see all corners of your truck.
For me, I prefer the long bed and will live with it being a little harder to park or walking a little farther after I park in the boondocks

On a $60,000 - $75,000 truck, The difference in incentives is very small percentage of the total price. Each year Ford seems to up the price 5-6%, So buying a older model saves you the annual price jump. Plus you get a $1000 or $2000 more in rebates. Don't expect to save $10,000 on the same equipped new model between years. It's just not going to happen.

So basically find or order the truck you want and pay the price. Looking for the best deal and giving up options that you want just leads to early trade offs or spending more money trying to retro fit the features you are missing. Just look at how many threads there are for folks trying to add Upfitter Switches, or ACC or Cameras, or LEDLights etc.

Gas will save you $9000 up front and 30-50 cents per gallon every fill up. You loose a little bit in mileage with Gas. Unless you drive a lot, You probably will never save enough of mileage to offset the diesel cost. You will get most of your diesel cost back when you sell the truck as diesel have a better resale.
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 09:37 AM
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Depends on what you are towing, and what you plan on towing in the future. If you go diesel, there is basically no difference between the 250 and 350 other than the increased payload. If you stick with the gas, then the 250 also gets you the torqshift-g tranny, which is a "better" match to the gas motor than the plain torqshift.

I've got the 6.2 w/ 4.3 rear in my 250. It pulls my gooseneck horse trailer just fine though the hills (7k empty, have probably had it loaded to around 9k or so on the longer runs I've made.. it doesn't have a problem. But I also don't tow at 75 mph, or feel the need to launch off the line when towing.
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:29 AM
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Thanks, all. Lots to consider. I'll post an update once I pull the trigger.
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by muecker View Post
Also, I hope to pay cash as I have the opportunity and hate a car note.

Looking forward to everyone's advice.
If you really are able to pay cash, don't. You have to fill out some IRS paperwork and it is reported. The best thing is to take out a loan and just pay it off as soon as the paper work gets settled at the lending institution. Plus, there may be some incentives tied to a loan that you can take advantage of. Just like right now, Ford gives you $500 off the price for using Ford Credit. This will easily cover any minor interest and hassle on your side.
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by toymaster View Post
If you really are able to pay cash, don't. You have to fill out some IRS paperwork and it is reported. The best thing is to take out a loan and just pay it off as soon as the paper work gets settled at the lending institution. Plus, there may be some incentives tied to a loan that you can take advantage of. Just like right now, Ford gives you $500 off the price for using Ford Credit. This will easily cover any minor interest and hassle on your side.
I don't necessarily agree with that advice. While it is true the IRS wants to know about any cash transactions over $10k (to make sure you aren't a terrorist funneling money somewhere you shouldn't) it really is no big deal. The dealers really need you to make 3 months of payments on any loan there is a Ford incentive tied to...and typically the interest rate is a hair higher on these "incentive" loans. On a $60k truck, you'll pay more than $500 interest in 3 months.

I'm with you...if you have the cash, do it...then you own it. Not that there is anything wrong with a loan...but cash is better. And, you'll save the re-titling fee at the DMV.
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by troverman View Post
The dealers really need you to make 3 months of payments on any loan there is a Ford incentive tied to...
Are you a salesman? Only the low-end lenders give a kickback to a dealer or loan shark as it were. This is 'merica and no one can tell you not to pay off a debt, least a legetiment debt.
Keeping the IRS out of your business, or in other words, off of their radar is a great thing.
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:06 AM
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I suppose I'll add my .02 since I had a similar requirement. I have had a number of tow vehicles including an E350 7.3 PSD and an '07 F350 6.0 PSD. None were daily drivers but instead dedicated tow vehicles. I had either cars or, on a couple of occasions, a new F150 to daily.

Whether you need an F250 or 350, and gas or diesel, is (obviously) determined by what you need to tow/haul and what kind of terrain you tow over. If you need a payload of more than 2500 lbs get a 350. I tow a 24' enclosed car hauler regularly and have a car as a daily driver. I ended up trading my '07 F350 PSD on my new '17 6.7 PSD (CCSB FX4). I would never have considered driving the '07 F350 daily and hadn't planned on dailing the '17 F250 but it rides and handles so nicely that its a pleasure to drive daily. Because my trailer is only about 9K fully loaded I didn't need the 350's payload, however, I did test drive both 250s and 350s. The 250 did ride noticeably better than the 350 and since I didn't need the additional payload I got the 250.

As for the gas/diesel debate we have a new thread on that here every week. There are advocates for both and many arguments for both. I love the 6.7 and after driving both never really considered the 6.2 gasser as the 6.7 is so good. If you are towing in the mountains get the 6.7. Its an amazing engine.
 
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by toymaster View Post
If you really are able to pay cash, don't. You have to fill out some IRS paperwork and it is reported. The best thing is to take out a loan and just pay it off as soon as the paper work gets settled at the lending institution. Plus, there may be some incentives tied to a loan that you can take advantage of. Just like right now, Ford gives you $500 off the price for using Ford Credit. This will easily cover any minor interest and hassle on your side.
By “cash” I bet the OP means he has the money in the bank and can get a cashiers check immediately to pay off the new truck, not that he will show up at the dealership with a bag full of freshly printed 100 dollar bills. Dealerships will not accept that much cash and usually want a bank check, not a personal check. I have bought my last 5 trucks by going to my bank and taking a cashiers check directly to the dealership. On this current 2018 F-250 I walked into the dealership at 9 am with a print out of which truck I wanted off the lot and drove it into my driveway by lunch. I am already putting funds aside each month and will “pay cash” for the next truck also. I hate paying banks when I can loan to myself and make a tiny bit of interest at the same time.

 
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by troverman View Post
I don't necessarily agree with that advice. While it is true the IRS wants to know about any cash transactions over $10k (to make sure you aren't a terrorist funneling money somewhere you shouldn't) it really is no big deal. The dealers really need you to make 3 months of payments on any loan there is a Ford incentive tied to...and typically the interest rate is a hair higher on these "incentive" loans. On a $60k truck, you'll pay more than $500 interest in 3 months.

I'm with you...if you have the cash, do it...then you own it. Not that there is anything wrong with a loan...but cash is better. And, you'll save the re-titling fee at the DMV.
Cash to me likely means bank check, which is documented so no IRS forms. Doubt he plans to walk in with a suitcase full of $100 bills, but anything is possible.
 

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