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The new Cummins 6.7 liter in RAM HD

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The new Cummins 6.7 liter in RAM HD

  #31  
Old 06-07-2018, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by toymaster View Post
Either you miss wrote or you do not understand torque and RPM and horsepower relationship. HP is torque x speed. The cummins is a lower revving motor than the powerstroke, always has been, always will be; this does not in any way mean it is less powerful. It just does the same work at a lower RPM, and all things being equal this is better.

1,000 ft lb of torque is nothing new, we were doing it 20 years ago with the 7.3 and 5.9 12 valve. The difference is full factory warranty at the power level, a difference that cannot be overstated for the average Joe customer.
Interesting, then, looking at Ford power output between a 2016 diesel and a 2017 diesel. I see the 2016 6.7L produces 440HP and 860lb-ft. The 2017 produces the same 440HP but 925lb-ft. Now it is true that the 2017 engine produces peak torque at 200RPM higher than the 2016 engine...but they have the same horsepower at the same RPM yet the 2016 engine *does not* produce 925lb-ft at 1800RPM.

If the Cummins produces 1000lb-ft but the same 385HP...it will indeed perform worse in certain metrics. For example, at higher RPM this truck will be slower pulling a load because it simply does not produce as much horsepower. Right now, RAM produces it's peak horsepower at the same 2800RPM as Ford.

Tuned diesels don't mean anything to me. You could make a Geo Metro with 300HP...but how long would that engine last? Factory-rated, warrantied power is what I care about.
 
  #32  
Old 06-07-2018, 08:32 AM
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None of this changes how well mine tows!

I sincerely hope Ram raises the bar. It’s good for all of us, as consumers.
 
  #33  
Old 06-07-2018, 10:02 AM
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As to the formula to how HP is calculated I left a link so you could check it out yourself. They are called curves for a reason and are not linear as you have suggested.

Originally Posted by troverman View Post
Tuned diesels don't mean anything to me. You could make a Geo Metro with 300HP...but how long would that engine last? Factory-rated, warrantied power is what I care about.
Yeah, been driving and pulling with over 700 ft lbs of torque since 2000, my truck had less than 1,000 miles on it when I modified it. Can't remember which TCT plate I was running in my '98 12 valve. I know before I modded the engines I wanted to pull over and burn the SOB's down on the side of the road for lack of power and guts. ergo why the 7.3 was chipped as soon as humanly possible. Don't even get me started on the automatic transmissions they used to put behind these diesels..... These are/were the problems of 'old I'm sure I'll be happy with 935 ft lbs for quit some time.
 
  #34  
Old 06-10-2018, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Blwnsmoke View Post
Yes Ford has a 7.x gasser coming but they are playing with a new 7.3 powerstroke as well. My guy out there drove it a few weeks ago. This is not something that is going to be in production anytime soon or if at all, just things Ford toys with to see what works and what doesnt. Bringing back the 7.3 powerstroke would be cool though..
Unless you have some crazy inside info, I believe itís just an internet rumor created by wishful thinking and confusion with the 7.3L (7X) gas motor. The 6.7 is nowhere near its potential, and they have torque restriction all the way to 4th gear. As far as we know the 10R140 will have the same torque input rating as the 6R140, so I donít think anyone is buying this 7.3 diesel thing. It just doesnít make sense.
 
  #35  
Old 06-10-2018, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Scorpion67 View Post
Unless you have some crazy inside info, I believe itís just an internet rumor created by wishful thinking and confusion with the 7.3L (7X) gas motor. The 6.7 is nowhere near its potential, and they have torque restriction all the way to 4th gear. As far as we know the 10R140 will have the same torque input rating as the 6R140, so I donít think anyone is buying this 7.3 diesel thing. It just doesnít make sense.
I know someone out in Dearborn who tests the mules/prototypes of the Fseries.
 
  #36  
Old 06-10-2018, 08:45 PM
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Ford wants to keep the 6.7 displacement. The Duramax and Cummins have kept their respective displacements and it helps cement the reputation of an engine.
 
  #37  
Old 06-11-2018, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by troverman View Post
Ford wants to keep the 6.7 displacement. The Duramax and Cummins have kept their respective displacements and it helps cement the reputation of an engine.

And yet raising the 7.3 nameplate from the dead would make many happy. There is a connection with many and if you ask to this day what was the best engine Ford had, the 7.3 would he what many say.

always interesting what manufacturers play around with.
 
  #38  
Old 06-11-2018, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Blwnsmoke View Post
And yet raising the 7.3 nameplate from the dead would make many happy. There is a connection with many and if you ask to this day what was the best engine Ford had, the 7.3 would he what many say.

always interesting what manufacturers play around with.
True, but many people cited Ford going through three engines in short succession (6.0L 2003-2007; 6.4L 2008-2010; 6.7L 2011+) as evidence of never having a good engine. People indeed loved the 7.3L, but given that the Duramax has been a 6.6L since introduction 2001 (17+ years) and the 6.7L Cummins since 2007 (11+ years) I truly believe Ford wants to stay with the 6.7L since it has only been around 7 years or so.
 
  #39  
Old 06-11-2018, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by troverman View Post
True, but many people cited Ford going through three engines in short succession (6.0L 2003-2007; 6.4L 2008-2010; 6.7L 2011+) as evidence of never having a good engine. People indeed loved the 7.3L, but given that the Duramax has been a 6.6L since introduction 2001 (17+ years) and the 6.7L Cummins since 2007 (11+ years) I truly believe Ford wants to stay with the 6.7L since it has only been around 7 years or so.
But that's not why that happened. 6.0 was created and Ford fudged that one up. The 6.0 is still a great motor once the shortfalls were handled (studded, egr cooler, blue spring mod).

The 6.4 was a temporary motor from the beginning. The 6.0 was not going to meet the new emissions requirements and the 6.7 wasnt ready so what was Ford to do? Hell, the 6.4 wasnt even designed with the emissions in mind..

The 6.7 was designed specifically for the emissions and besides a few def issues and the original egg issue, it has been a fantastic motor.

I do not think a 7.3 would do harm if they did do it. It can still be just a larger 6.7 and the power would climb. They were running 520ish HP and over 1,000ft in the 6.7 back in 2015 so I know the motor can handle it easily but this may be something Ford is looking at for the future as the hp/tq wars keep going.

we will see if anything comes of it.
 
  #40  
Old 06-11-2018, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by willynilly View Post
was probly mostly fleet sales, which are meaningless numbers since qaulity of the vehicle is low on the priority list
For the love of God ...

Why the hell would a fleet manager/buyer purchase GARBAGE (low quality) trucks? It cost more time, energy and money to keep them running versus buying a quality truck.

Fleet sales are just as important as personal sales, if not MORE, relative to quality and REPEAT purchases.
 
  #41  
Old 06-11-2018, 12:17 PM
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Moved to Ford vs. Competition forum.
 
  #42  
Old 06-11-2018, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Blwnsmoke View Post
Total fleet sales were 32.5%.
Using FEB 2018 data, half of their fleet sales are for the rental fleet segment, which is largely NOT trucks. Just over 1/3 of their fleet sales are for the commercial fleet segment (primarily trucks), while about 14% of their fleet sales are to the government segment (both). Fleet sales for FEB 2018 was 36.6% of total sales. Total sales were 194,132 and fleet sales were 71,059 of that. Truck sales were 84,384 (both retail and fleet).
 
  #43  
Old 06-11-2018, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Scorpion67 View Post
Unless you have some crazy inside info, I believe itís just an internet rumor created by wishful thinking and confusion with the 7.3L (7X) gas motor. The 6.7 is nowhere near its potential, and they have torque restriction all the way to 4th gear. As far as we know the 10R140 will have the same torque input rating as the 6R140, so I donít think anyone is buying this 7.3 diesel thing. It just doesnít make sense.
If they keep the same nomenclature, and the name is 10r140, it should handle the same 1400 ft lbs (thus the "140" number).
 
  #44  
Old 06-11-2018, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Blwnsmoke View Post
But that's not why that happened. 6.0 was created and Ford fudged that one up. The 6.0 is still a great motor once the shortfalls were handled (studded, egr cooler, blue spring mod).

The 6.4 was a temporary motor from the beginning. The 6.0 was not going to meet the new emissions requirements and the 6.7 wasnt ready so what was Ford to do? Hell, the 6.4 wasnt even designed with the emissions in mind..

The 6.7 was designed specifically for the emissions and besides a few def issues and the original egg issue, it has been a fantastic motor.

I do not think a 7.3 would do harm if they did do it. It can still be just a larger 6.7 and the power would climb. They were running 520ish HP and over 1,000ft in the 6.7 back in 2015 so I know the motor can handle it easily but this may be something Ford is looking at for the future as the hp/tq wars keep going.

we will see if anything comes of it.
While that might not be ďwhyĒ it happened, thatís what people see and think. I agree the 6.0 can be a very good motor, and some even survive in stock form without issue.
 
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