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Mild 302 1989 F150

 
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:01 PM
hadfield4wd
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Mild 302 1989 F150

OK so here is my build thread.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1427183-1989-f150-xlt-lariat.html

I'm looking for a little more power. Not a lot. This is a 100% stock rebuild. So can you help with heads cam and headers? No I don't want to go the GT40. Can you help me pick which Dart heads will work?


https://www.summitracing.com/search/brand/dart/product-line/dart-iron-eagle-cylinder-heads-for-small-ford?SortBy=Default&SortOrder=Ascending&page=2

This I believe is the only cam to work with my truck. Which pushrods and lifters do I need?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-31-255-5?cm_mmc=ppc-google-_-search-_-brands-_-keyword&gclid=CjwKCAjwxZnYBRAVEiwANMTRX6kGSR_OLrdu gIskyf8TdHVYJ93rTVwIhvFaMbDG_1LRNOR0TSpn9RoCynUQAv D_BwE

And then these headers.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g9035/applications/year/1989/make/ford/model/f-150?prefilter=1

Thank you.
 
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Old 05-24-2018, 07:47 PM
baddad457
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Your stock computer isn't going to like the heads you want. And it's somewhat of a contradiction to your statement that you don't want much more power over stock. Any aftermarket head is going to give you anywhere from 75 HP on up. Then add headers and a non stock cam and you've really overloaded the computer.
 
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:20 PM
hadfield4wd
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Originally Posted by baddad457 View Post
Your stock computer isn't going to like the heads you want. And it's somewhat of a contradiction to your statement that you don't want much more power over stock. Any aftermarket head is going to give you anywhere from 75 HP on up. Then add headers and a non stock cam and you've really overloaded the computer.
that's why I'm asking the question. I don't really know what the aftermarket heads would do. So there isn't a "mild" aftermarket head?

I don't want a ton and I don't really want to spend more than $1000.
 
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:39 PM
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There's really nothing you can do here with the stock Speed Density EFI other than maybe the headers. You'd need to covert it to Mass Air first to do the mods you want. As for mild heads ? That's the GT40's. And you'll still need Mass Air for those.
 
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Old 05-25-2018, 07:59 AM
Samtech79
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Why would he need to convert to MAF for GT40 heads? If the cam he chose was SD friendly why would he then have to swap to MAF?
Lots of people have intakes, GT40 heads and headers with SD with no problem. Is the 5.0 ecu more fickle?
 
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by hadfield4wd View Post
I'm looking for a little more power. Not a lot.
Then you don't need heads at all just put a cam and exhaust on it and there you go.. 50-60hp.

Originally Posted by hadfield4wd View Post
This I believe is the only cam to work with my truck. Which pushrods and lifters do I need?
It's not the only cam but it's a good choice, use the matching lifters and stock pushrods.

Originally Posted by hadfield4wd View Post
And then these headers.
Those will work but if you want to see any gains the stock cats and Y pipe have to go too.
 
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Samtech79 View Post
Why would he need to convert to MAF for GT40 heads? If the cam he chose was SD friendly why would he then have to swap to MAF?
Lots of people have intakes, GT40 heads and headers with SD with no problem. Is the 5.0 ecu more fickle?
I did a GT40 head swap on a 96 351W, combined with 1.7 rockers, shorty headers and a full 3" exhaust with Mass Air and it runs on the lean side. I seriously doubt you could get away with heads cam and exhaust on the stock SD system.
 
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Samtech79 View Post
Why would he need to convert to MAF for GT40 heads? If the cam he chose was SD friendly why would he then have to swap to MAF?
There are actually two limitations that you run into when modifying these trucks, control system limitations and fuel delivery limitations. It's pretty easy to hit fuel delivery limitations, stock injectors are only good to about 275hp but you can't simply drop in bigger injectors, the PCM is programmed for 19lb injectors and it can't magically compensate for anything larger it has to be reprogrammed, only problem is it's not programmable so something that is has to be substituted.


Originally Posted by Samtech79 View Post
Lots of people have intakes, GT40 heads and headers with SD with no problem. Is the 5.0 ecu more fickle?
If the stock cam remains that combo doesn't increase airflow enough to exceed fuel delivery limitations so it'll run well, but that also makes these very poor choices if all you wanted was a little more power.. a cam and exhaust on an atherwise stock motor would make more HP. If the cam is also changed then it's pretty much guaranteed the motor needs bigger injectors too, yeah it'll run on the stock setup but it's not going to operate like a stock motor or make as much power as it should.
 
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:58 AM
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The only difference between this build and mine is that I'm using the 444232 (identical to the first gen lighting) cam. Same frankenmanifold and all.
The lighting used GT40 heads, 1.7, factory short header things... and a tubular manifold on SD.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1475174-scndsins-5-8-build.html#post16937337
 
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Old 05-25-2018, 12:58 PM
hadfield4wd
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Originally Posted by Conanski View Post
Then you don't need heads at all just put a cam and exhaust on it and there you go.. 50-60hp.

It's not the only cam but it's a good choice, use the matching lifters and stock pushrods.

Those will work but if you want to see any gains the stock cats and Y pipe have to go too.
So if I understand you. Heads will be too much for stock computer? I don't want a huge project here. 50-60 hp would be massive in this truck if that's what just a cam and headers will do.

By stock pushrods do mean the current ones or go buy new stock ones? New lifters are a given.

I'm ok with removing the stock cats and y pipe. Just need a larger diameter y pipe? Any suggestions where I can buy one?

Thanks for the help.
 
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Old 05-25-2018, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by hadfield4wd View Post
So if I understand you. Heads will be too much for stock computer?.
Heads alone no but heads, intake and cam together yes.

Originally Posted by hadfield4wd View Post
By stock pushrods do mean the current ones or go buy new stock ones? New lifters are a given..
If the original pushrods are straight and the ends not worn(have a close look at them) then they are good to reuse, otherwise get new stock length pushrods.

Originally Posted by hadfield4wd View Post
I'm ok with removing the stock cats and y pipe. Just need a larger diameter y pipe? Any suggestions where I can buy one?
The factory Y pipe and cats are a 1 piece combo so you can't really eliminate one without the other, several manufacturers(Magnaflow, Flowmster) offer OEM replacement pieces that can be used with or without an aftermarket cat and all of those cats will outflow the units. Search on Summit Racing for "cat converters" for your truck and you will see them.
 
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Old 05-25-2018, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Samtech79 View Post
The only difference between this build and mine is that I'm using the 444232 (identical to the first gen lighting) cam. Same frankenmanifold and all.
The lighting used GT40 heads, 1.7, factory short header things... and a tubular manifold on SD.

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post16937337
Yea, the Lightning used SD, but not with your computer. Big difference here.
 
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Old 05-25-2018, 06:59 PM
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Did you look over that thread? Looks like it works pretty good to me. There's some dyno stuff in there.
From what I understand about EEC-IV's for SD with E4od is that they're pretty much all mapped out about the same. Some can mess with shift points more than others but if it'll run, that's about what you can expect. A 260'ish hp truck engine of this era is a pretty good runner. It's about all a 19lb injector can handle but although it isn't great sounding, 240-280 at the crank makes most any truck or van feel pretty fun. Not a monster but warmed over and runs well enough to live for a very long time.
Maf sure as hell won't hurt. If I could do it here I would but the smog ****'s don't give me much choice.
I'm gonna find out real soon if my computer will or won't play nice with the lot of it. I'm betting it will.
If not I'll be eating crow.
The point I'm making is that a mild build "is" some GT40's, a SD friendly cam and a set of headers. At least for this era of ford goody box parts. The aftermarket heads and manifolds blow the parts bin goodies out of the water but those aren't "mild" builds.
5.8 Van manifolds options are limited but as I understand it even that big'ol Edelbrock truck manifold will run alright on SD too.
I don't think I'm brave enough to put the bigger aftermarket throttlebody on without converting it to MAF though.
I'd venture to say the OP is really good and confused now... which is mostly my fault.
Anyways, what I'm doing and what the other guy in the thread I posted are doing is to build about as mean as you can go with SD and without a Tweeker.
Mine is to power a 4x4 camper through the mountains for a long time and with minimal heat and acceptable mileage. It's not to lay rubber.
If I didn't have smog...

oh... and I have to stuff it all out one 2.5" exhaust pipe. There is a magnaflow y pipe and cat but it's still 2.5 out. 19lbs is fine, plenty even.
 
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:01 PM
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Here's another good one for you...
460 eeciv for e4od and 24lb injectors.
This dude.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1125649-460-comp-and-injectors-into-a-351-a.html
I really doubt I could tune out the fuel pressure and let it self lean enough to pass the sniffer. I also doubt that I can keep all the smog parts (egr, canister purge valve, etc)happy enough to pass the function test and keep the check engine light off.
but I might explore this more. I figure there is another 20-30 useable ft.lbs below that not so magic 4500 rpm limiter in the 460 eeciv. I'll just need to study up the pin out between my already custom job and whatever perspective eec code that I think might work.
For how much it cost to study and to just buy the injectors and eec it's worth some study. It's all the other little **** that turns on the check engine light that I'm worried about.
 
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Old 05-25-2018, 09:06 PM
hadfield4wd
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Not totally confused.

So basically aftermarket heads are too much for the existing computer setup?

I'm set on the cam as well as the headers.

So what you are all saying is GT40 heads is marginal for this? This is not a rubber laying beast. I I just want a little more umph. Pull the hill to my house without standing on it in 3rd to maintain 50. And with my small trailer it's worse.

I can do this in stages.
 

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