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WTF were you thinking, Ford? A timing CHAIN driven water pump?!

  #16  
Old 05-13-2018, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom View Post
I'm fairly confident the 2.7L EB in the Edge uses a belt-driven water pump. Just the 3.5/3.7L FWD applications that I'm aware of.

I first read about the chain-driven pump about three years ago, and since then the V6-powered Explorer/Edge has been off my list of consideration. I don't think it's a likely failure at this point for someone that doesn't put on a lot of hours, but the possibility and consequence of failure is enough to keep me away. I think it's a dumb design...I get it for engine length and packaging considerations, but still.
Wait, are you saying the Edge Sport 2.7 EB has an EXTERNAL pump (do you mean RWD applicatitons?) On a quick look at parts listings, this may be the case--I was assuming that all of the transverse V6's had the "innie" pumps. Hmmm....maybe there could be an Edge in my future with some real horsepower

Like you, I tend to stay away from vehicles with potential catastrophic repair possibilities even if they are rare...

Thanks,
George
 
  #17  
Old 05-13-2018, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by YoGeorge View Post
Wait, are you saying the Edge Sport 2.7 EB has an EXTERNAL pump (do you mean RWD applicatitons?) On a quick look at parts listings, this may be the case--I was assuming that all of the transverse V6's had the "innie" pumps. Hmmm....maybe there could be an Edge in my future with some real horsepower

Like you, I tend to stay away from vehicles with potential catastrophic repair possibilities even if they are rare...

Thanks,
George
Correct, the pump is external like most other "normal" designs. The 2.7L V6 has absolutely no commonality with the 3.5/3.7L engines, which is what led me to dig into this further. Here's the pump:

 
  #18  
Old 05-13-2018, 10:22 PM
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Yup, I checked Rock Auto first and it listed a common pump for the Edge and the F150 applications! I did drive a CPO MKX with the 2.7 Ecoboost and 22 way power seats a while back and was not in love with the seats but LOVED the engine. Boy did that vehicle haul butt... I believe the MKX has a higher hp rating than the Edge (335 vs 315) in 2018 and earlier models...and the Edge is gonna get the additional power and an 8 speed auto in the new ST version for 2019. That will be really tempting but discounts and rebates will not be high for a while. But it should accelerate like my old late 60's musclecars and will let me have my 2nd childhood while also getting a practical and useful vehicle. Make that my 3rd childhood as I just had my 3rd 22nd birthday...or was it my 6th 11th birthday?

Thanks for pointing this out!
George
 
  #19  
Old 05-14-2018, 06:28 AM
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I'm sure it would, George. I got to drive a friend's Edge Sport about a year ago, and it was a very impressive vehicle. Not sure the MPG hit over the smaller EcoBoost would keep me happy in the long run though, the 4-cylinder EBs seem to be pretty good over the long haul. I had the first-gen 2.0L in my Escape that I was pretty happy with, but I gotta admit the fuel economy never lived up to expectations.

I didn't post it on FTE, but I followed in your footsteps a week ago and traded my Ford for an FCA minivan. I ended up with a slightly used Pacifica fresh out of a rental fleet. I've always enjoyed the Pentastar V6 in the vans I've driven for work, and this one is no exception to that!
 
  #20  
Old 05-14-2018, 08:40 AM
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I hope I can get back into a Ford myself. I did 2500 miles in 12 days on our Grand Caravan in April on a trip to the Carolinas, including climbing up some hills, and I really like the Pentastar. Over 24 mpg average (with the 6 speed trans--you have 8 speeds). Pentastar is a nice motor and the lack of direct injection and turbos is hopefully a long term service advantage.

The Ford 3.5/3.7 are similarly nice (and not direct injected in NA form) except for the water pump placement on transverse engines. So this revelation (thanks again) on the 2.7 is gonna get me to revisit thoughts of an Edge Sport soon
 
  #21  
Old 05-14-2018, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by NumberDummy View Post
In the 1950's, Lincoln's came with the Vickers Drive P/S pump that ran off the crankshaft.
My old Cummins had the vacuum pump and power steering pump driven off the gears that drive the cam and fuel injection pump.

FoMoCo no longer has anything to do with Mazda. At one time, FoMoCo owned 33% of Mazda that by Japanese Corporate Standards, gave FoMoCo controlling interest.

But once Ford procured their 23.8 billion dollar loan, they began to sell off assets. Jaguar/Land Rover sold to Tata Motors of India, Aston-Martin to a private British investment firm, Volvo to a Chinese parts maker.

30% of Mazda was sold back to Mazda and recently the remaining 3% was sold back to Mazda.
I know the history... Still because they shared designs, I'm a big fan of them. Like I said, my wife's Mazda van is Ford powered. In fact, I had to get some of the coolant hoses from the Ford dealership (Based on the Motorcraft engineering numbers stamped on them.) because the Mazda ones didn't fit properly.

Originally Posted by m-chan68 View Post
Think again. I, as a long time Ford dealership tech have done LOTS of water pumps on our local police department Explorer and Taurus Interceptor vehicles powered by the 3.7L V6s. Now, granted these vehicles generally rack up a HUGE engine hour count with their use. The most recent one I did last month had about 61,000 kms. (37,000 miles) and about 7200 total run time hours (the equivalent of 288,000 kms. driven mileage wear on the engine). Having said that, the majority of water pump failures I have repaired on these engines, has been from the police departments. I hardly see any of these failures on customers' vehicles, but my guess would be that customers also don't rack up even close to the amount of engine hours that police fleets do.
How many of the Police duty vehicles have you seen with trashed main bearings due to coolant contaminating the crankcase oil?
 
  #22  
Old 05-14-2018, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Pele View Post
How many of the Police duty vehicles have you seen with trashed main bearings due to coolant contaminating the crankcase oil?
NONE. All of the ones I've seen and repaired, have leaked coolant externally.
 
  #23  
Old 05-14-2018, 11:03 PM
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1.9 and 2.0 escorts drop valve seats like hotcakes.
 
  #24  
Old 05-15-2018, 05:40 AM
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One of my customers on my last route has a 2013 Edge. The water pump failed and trashed the engine. Fortunately he had the Ford ESP on it. Even with the ESP, Ford pushed back pretty hard on a complete engine replacement but in the end, Ford did the right thing and installed a new engine for his $100.00 deductible.

Ford tried like hell to put the onus of this engine failure on him saying that he should have been more aware of his rising oil level or lower coolant level. But, he's an old man and 100% of his maintenance is performed by the selling dealer.

I wouldn't be afraid to get one but I'd get the ESP with it.
 
  #25  
Old 05-15-2018, 07:55 PM
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I just replaced a complete 3.7L engine assembly today on a 2015 Taurus Interceptor. This one suffered a broken crank sprocket lock pin, putting valve timing slightly out of time.
 
  #26  
Old 05-15-2018, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by m-chan68 View Post


I just replaced a complete 3.7L engine assembly today on a 2015 Taurus Interceptor. This one suffered a broken crank sprocket lock pin, putting valve timing slightly out of time.

man looks like a rusty bugger under there.
 
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