I want to get a 1979 F150 with a 302 in it and change the heads and cam etc to get 350 or more HP and hopefully at least 300 peak torque. I have seen multiple how-tos online that do just that but I was wondering if it is possible to do this and still be able to pass emissions tests with the above HP and torque? I want a daily driver with a little kick in it but it obviously will need to be legal. I am sure it varies by state (in terms of emissions strictness) but I am curious in general if this can be done?

As a side, assuming I could get a 400hp 302 to pass emissions is there any possible way I could get at least 10 MPG highway or am I trying to have my cake and eat it too?

 

Good analogy with the cake in this case!
But for around here (CA) you'd need to pass the visual first. That doesn't mean it would fail for having heads and a manifold, or even headers. But you'd have to have a stock fully closed air cleaner, and ALL the emissions related stuff visible at a glance.
That means, air pump, catalytic converter, at least two vacuum canisters, EVAP (charcoal) canister, vacuum lines galore all over the place and going to the distributor via the thermally activated control valves, EGR (and it's amplifier if your particular truck came with one) and all the other associated things.
If you don't have at least what looks like all of it, you don't even get a chance at the sniffer. That's because the rule is you're not allowed to remove, or defeat the purpose of any smog control device installed at the factory. So headers are legal on our trucks because they don't defeat the purpose. Aftermarket air cleaner housings would be legal if they were enclosed and had a hot-air/choke stove feature too.
A 4bbl carb "might" fail you since none were available from the factory on a 302 in a truck your year, but then again, it "might" just get passed.
Single exhaust only, if that's how it came from the factory (which it did of course).
And of course, to be totally legal all the parts you use do need to have an EO (executive order) number associated with them. This can sometimes get overlooked, but if you have a stickler for accuracy, you won't get past the visual.

If you're not in CA or one of the other states that are that picky, then you get to the sniffer. And this is where I have no idea. If you're burning cleaner than factory due to the heads and a good ignition (is 350-400 hp going to be EFI?) you might get close. You could lean out the mixture, run regular gas for the test, and maybe some other tricks to get it passed. But I'm not sure. That cam is going to be the real sticking point I would think.

Good luck though! Love to see you do it, but I'm not sure if anyone here has gone that more radical route and been tested to see what the results were.
If you can do it and have it tested, by all means post up the results here so we know. With luck someone already has and will post up their findings first.

Paul

 

1TON, you are SOoooooo right.. What I did for my 81 Bronco (years ago) was located a 68 302 block because it had meat in it.. The Deck was over 5/8" thicker and the cylinder wall thickness was almost 1/2".. Much more stout that a HO 5.0 block. In 81 the only options were a 6 cyl or the 302, If a 351 Windsor was an option in 81 I would have gone in that direction.. Anyway I built a 347 Stroker (0.60 over) which made it 352 C.I. Used a Scat Crank, Eagle H-beam Rods, This was before SRP made Stroker pistons so I had to order them from Wisco, (0.60 over High Silicon Forge) Low base circle (custom ground) Crane cam, All the Motorsport HP parts, Double Roller Chain Set, Billet Cam Gear (Which I had to also balance to the cam) Motorsport Roller Lifters (for a later model 5.0 HO) Moly push rods and Crane 1.60 ratio roller rocker mounted on Cast Iron World Sr 2.02 heads fully ported and flowed.. I used the Edelbrock RPM manifold (With EGR) and the stock 85 Holley carb from a 85 Mustang with dual bowl vent tubes (which I had mounted on a standard Holley 600 and tuned to the "T") topped with a 5.0 HO air Cleaner with dual inlets and early Evap flappers with heat risers off each side., 1 3/4" equal length Mac shorty headers for a 85 Mustang (with CARB ID).. I chose the 85 Mustang platform because on the 85 Mustang it offered Single exhaust with single Cat, Dual exhaust with 2ea cats, Dual exhaust with 4 cats as well as Manual and Automatic Trans.. I chose to use a single 3" exhaust with a $90.00 3-way cat from summit and a Walker single in- Dual outlet Muffler. Induction for the 85 Mustang also included Single 4bbl Carb, CFI and EFI so If I decided to use Edelbrock's Forced Induction or wanted to go full on Fuel Injection I could.. When all said and done I was in my motor almost $10,000.00 and a trip to the referee to smog it as a 85 5.0 HO motor with "ALL" the trimmings.. Smog Pump, Cold Air return piping to the back of the heads, functioning EGR Valve, Relays, Delays, the works.. This motor was CARB Smog legal and had 21" of vacuum at an Idle and 15" of vacuum on the freeway. 445 H.p and 450 Ft. Lb. Torque.. C-6 Trans with 350 gears and got 18 mpg all day every day at 70-80 mph.. Never had a problem in the Bay area stop & Go traffic.. It can be done if done right, Careful consideration needs to be taken when choosing a cam grind (Tony Oddo TOE Performance came up with the numbers) Attention to detail when hooking up the emission equipment because it all has to work properly and It's very expensive.. These days you could purchase a Complete 347 Stroker motor on-line for $7,000.00 and tell them what you need to have.

 

I looked at your profile. Florida. I guess emissions test is a sniffer?

As general comment, getting 350 HP on 302 Cu In is going to take a pretty hot cam with quite a bit of overlap (intake and exhaust valve both open). This is not an emissions friendly setup.

A 350 HP 302 would also make its power at high RPM and have low torque at low and mid RPM which is where you drive most of the time. It would require steep rear gears to have decent performance (eg 4.10 or 4.56) and it would need to stay revved up to push a heavier PU well.

I would suggest a more moderate engine would be nicer to drive... somewhere in the 250-275 HP range. Also better chance to dial in the emissions. Or step up to a 351 for more cubic inches.

 

This is the cam spec I used..

 

To add to what's been said, we all like big numbers, but remember that a measly 300bhp is literally DOUBLE what your stock 302 would have come with in '79. Maybe more than double!
If you don't want to change to lower gearing to take better advantage, more torque would be better. And if you can bring it's peak down in the rpm range to 3000 or below, better still.
But any time your torque numbers remain higher than the horsepower numbers (even at higher rpm) you're still ahead of the game. It's when you see something like 350hp and 300tq that you're losing out in a heavier vehicle. Might pay to heed the croz's numbers since he's getting BIG numbers in both categories from a small-ish engine
Hard to argue with the croz's numbers. But notice that even with his very high hp number, the tq number is higher still.
Lots of money, but money well spent I'd say.

Thanks for including the cam number and specs.
Notice too that his 112° LSA is up in the EFI friendly range as well. Factory is 114 on a lot of our late 80's to late 90's applications.
Those are some pretty big numbers too croz. You get a real dyno workout on that, or something like Desktop Dyno? Either way, impressive numbers. And passing smog to boot!
Do you remember the peak rpm numbers too?

If you're not interested in building your own rusty, Blueprint Engines is putting together some pretty impressive numbers on their crate engines. They seem straight up and legit from all reports fairly recently. Might be worth a look to see what fits your needs.

Paul

 

1TON, The motor was good for 7200 rpm "All Day Long" but the cam was all done at I think 6,000, I'll try to find my Dyno sheet.. It's been 13 year.. CROZ..

 

Here is my journey of building my stroker... I hope you enjoy it as much as I did... CROZ..

 

Wow, I am glad I found this forum, really appreciate all of the input! Yes, it's Florida but I want it to be able to pass inspections if I move to another state so I was wondering in general.

One restriction for me is my budget, I can't really afford more than $25k total and I was thinking $3k towards the engine and emissions. I was going to go with a 351W for the build but to my knowledge that was not available for the 1979 F150 and they had the 351M which I am told is not a good engine.

Because this will be a daily driver city truck I want the widest torque band possible with plenty of torque in the lower RPM range so I guess I should start with a bigger ci engine.

In regards to EFI I haven't made up my mind but I am really tempted to stay carbureted so I don't have to deal with all the electronics, not that it would be too complicated but I just like the idea of having as little electronics as possible on my engine. A crate engine is not a bad idea though, I had never really considered that.

I will look into crate engines and try to keep what everyone said in mind. Again, thank you so much for the advice!

 

Well the rumors may never quite die off, but the 351M (and it's larger stroked sibling, the 400) were not "bad" engines per sé. They were just misunderstood.
Well, they were understood by us pretty well, as anemic and heavy. But that's because they were hobbled by the tech and smog expertise of the mid to late seventies. Lean fuel mixtures, retarded and wimpy cams, less than perfect combustion chambers. All of which have come a long way in the meantime. So these engines can build some good power and torque numbers.
If you've never read the Hot Rod Magazine (I think it was them?) article on the stock cheap rebuild of a 400 in a pickup, it's worth hunting down online and getting a good smile out of. Basically it came in as a lamb (in pig's clothing no less!) and left like a lion with a lot of surprised folks at the dyno shop.

However, all my defense of it aside, I'm pretty sure we can say that the V family (Windsor family to many of us, with the 302 and 351W being the most common) can really build some great power numbers with all the modern parts that are available now.
The M engine was slated for big cars and trucks to slug around a load or around town and hopefully with fewer emissions. Not for big power.
Fewer ponies and less rev-friendly design. Retarded cam timing, not quite as efficient a combustion chamber design as later Windsors, and all that.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that they can be built to pull very strong in a big truck when modern cams, timing sets and heads are used (mostly just the cam change will wake up the sleeping giant though!), but are not likely to be happy building the kind of power you're talking about and still passing smog. But there was a similar thread here just a few weeks ago where a guy with a hopped up engine passed his smog check. I forget if it was a "335 series" (351M/351C/400) or an FE or what it was. Maybe it's worth checking out.

Was the 302 originally in this truck? Seems like easier to build up a stroker 302 than retrofit the M engine, but I could be wrong. But I still don't think the M is the best choice for your needs. In spite of the soft spot I have for them, I wouldn't mind trying a 351W someday in mine.
We'll see though. I like low rpm stump pullin' torque personally.

Paul

 

Yeah I would love as much torque as possible starting in the low RPM and as wide as possible of a band so I can have nice acceleration.

I​​​​​ don't actually have the truck yet, I am a broke college student but I am trying to plan what to do when I get it. I am not sure what will end up being in the truck whether it's the 351M or 302 or what. I could probably get a junkyard 351W for $200 or so, so I guess it doesn't matter that much.

That makes sense about the 351M but as far as availability of parts and popularity a 351W would probably be a better choice for a beginner don't you think?

 

What do y'all think about crate engines? I am not really sure about options for a 1979 but do you think there might be some performance engine I could drop in that could get me good torque and hp and still pass emissions and maybe better MPG if its EFI?

If I rebuild an engine I would like to do as much work by myself as possible but I don't have any tools beyond the very basics so I will probably end up having to farm a lot of work out so I am starting to think it might be better to get a crate engine but I am not sure. Are there good options for $5000 or less? 1ton you were talking about blueprint engines, those look pretty good. A lot of crate options I have seen are either for racing only though and I want something that is street legal.

 

Yes, from that aspect, definitely.
Remember one other thing though, is that if you get a truck that came with a 351M or a 400, the transmission will not just bolt right up to a Windsor. The bolt patterns are completely different.
While the bore center dimensions between the 335 series and the Windsor based engines, only the Cleveland (351C) used the small bell housing. The M and the 400 used the same bell housing bolt pattern as the 460 engines.
So you need a different transmission as well.

Not an insurmountable problem surely. And many junkyard finds would have a matching transmission (and transfer case too, if you were building a 4wd) attached for a little more money than just the engine. But you just need to keep that in mind when on the hunt for stuff.

Paul

 

 

TOTALLY concur... all my toys are exempt. Well, except the complicated Italian.