1983 Ford F150 - Engine Died On the Road Now Starts Intermittently
#16
03-02-2018, 04:41 PM
Sorry I wasn't more specific. I turn the key and the radiator fan starts, you hear clicking, but the engine does not fire. I started it successfully this morning with the fully charged battery I had in the first place, tested the alternator as instructed, which indicated that it was working. The battery read 13.4_~ish V (it would start high and slowly trickle down until about 13.39ish), and with the engine running it read 14.60 V and trickled down to 14.52 V after about a full minute. I checked fluid levels and the battery and wiring and then turned it off and on again a few times letting it idle for 5-10 minutes and then turning it off. I drove it about 7 miles before it died again. When it died, the engine stopped, the hydraulic brakes stopped working, the power steering was gone, normal stuff I think. Immediately checked for a flooded carb and I didn't see any gas in there at all, it looked bone dry. I pulled off the fuel filter, which was now a chrome cover as I got a new one so I couldn't see inside, but I collected the gas that came from the carb hose and the fuel pump in a bottle and it wasn't anywhere near as bad as yesterday, but there were flecks of red and rest in the gas, even though gas was still flowing. So my next plan is to remove the gas tank and flush it out and give it new clean gas and see how it reacts to that.
#17
03-03-2018, 12:47 AM
A reasonable plan. Seems like there’s been a rash of clogged pick up socks lately.
However, when you starve for gas the motor will usually sputter and cut in and out a bit before dying all together, and from what you’re describing it sounds like after it warms up it just up and quits like you turned off the key. Almost sounds like a bad pick up inside the distributor or ignition module. Or maybe the ignition switch considering the way the lights cut out.
However, when you starve for gas the motor will usually sputter and cut in and out a bit before dying all together, and from what you’re describing it sounds like after it warms up it just up and quits like you turned off the key. Almost sounds like a bad pick up inside the distributor or ignition module. Or maybe the ignition switch considering the way the lights cut out.
#18
03-03-2018, 01:16 AM
Got the gas tank out without much trouble, what looks like the exhaust gasket is completely obliterated and I'll need a new one of those before I put it back it.
#19
03-03-2018, 07:17 AM
If he has dirt problems in the fuel, then it will probably run fine just sitting there, and then he starts driving down the road sloshing the fuel around, and it stirs up all that rust and clogs the fuel system. If you have that much rust in the fuel system, in my experience you are going to need a new fuel tank. I bet if you top of the fuel tank at the fuel station, it leaks.
#20
03-03-2018, 08:49 PM
If he has dirt problems in the fuel, then it will probably run fine just sitting there, and then he starts driving down the road sloshing the fuel around, and it stirs up all that rust and clogs the fuel system. If you have that much rust in the fuel system, in my experience you are going to need a new fuel tank. I bet if you top of the fuel tank at the fuel station, it leaks.
Also, got copper compression terminals for the battery connection instead of the normal ones.
#21
03-03-2018, 10:30 PM
Been flushing it out, it's incredibly dirty in there, but the gas sending unit on it still functions perfectly fine, the fuel line looks good, haven't looked at the pump yet though. Been trying to tackle a tachometer that doesn't function, so I removed the gauge cluster to find nothing even plugs into it, so I must have bad wiring somewhere and I'm working through that while I let some diluted vinegar peel away the rust in the tank.
Also, got copper compression terminals for the battery connection instead of the normal ones.
Also, got copper compression terminals for the battery connection instead of the normal ones.
The dead tach? From the Unsolicited Advice department, I'd suggest sticking to one crisis at a time, in this case the unpredictable dying problem. If working an unrelated issue, it's way too easy to accidentally create a new fault without realizing it. Meanwhile, you find and fix original fault A but you don't realize it because of new fault B mimicking A. This will drive you crazy trying to figure it out, and can lead to replacing perfectly good, expensive parts. I don't care to discuss how I learned this.
My personal motto: As little as possible for as long as it takes.The rusty gas tank? Cleaning is almost always a waste of time. Often times any chemical treatment (even vinegar?) just slowly loosens the crud, and it continues to break free for months on end. Given the chance to spend your time and money, I'd spring for a new tank. Chem treatment might be worth a gamble for an irreplaceable tank like on a 1948 Tucker, but with replacements readily available at a reasonable price for our trucks, well...
#22
03-03-2018, 10:55 PM
Cargo Master
Hey guys First post about really my first vehicle I've tried to work on so my thought process on trying to solve this may seem silly but it's me trying to go off the knowledge that I have model Info: 1983 Ford F150 Regular Cab Flareside Shortbed 4x4 A/T 351W So I have the model in the title and I was driving it down the street and I had been driving for about an hour and already the truck seemed to have lost power slowed down and stopped lost power steering engine function the works so then I take off the air filter and look at what the carb was doing during trying to start it i would turn the key the radiator fan would start up I'd get a whine and that would be it I noticed white gas coming from the carb and figured maybe it wasn't getting enough fuel and was vaporizing what it was getting looked at the fuel filter and the fuel filter one of the clear ones you can see into was red the gas was this dirty reddish color so I pulled it off the line and tried to empty it out and put it back on to no avail i also tried to turn the truck on with the filter off just to make sure it was pumping gas it was then I push the thing back to a friend's house we put in an extra battery of his because mine seemed to have died trying to start this thing up we put it in it doesn't start and that's that I went inside to do some research even put a little gas in the bowl manually and it didn't help I checked all the fuses too and they're all in good shape after that I tried to start it later on and it started i changed nothing and started it and it ran i turned it off to figure out my game plan came back outside to try it again ran again it was night now so I turned on the headlights which works interior dash lights all worked drove around the block every turn got way harsher the truck would grind and whine every time I tried to turn but I had no resistance on my end I drove about 300 feet and the engine died again all lights went off immediately, no fading out or dimming I tried to start it again it started and died about 5 seconds later tred to start it again nothing and the transfer lever now popped out of its gear when turning as well which is new it grinded a lot changing gears in general appeared stressful to the system out of nowhere is this enough information to find something to start on the distributor starter and relay fuel filter fluids and carb were replaced a week ago this vehicle has been running okay i drove it on the highway at 65 earlier and then it ended up dying in a 25 i want to think this is electrical and there just some weird bad wire causing these shorts because the car starts enough to make me think the starter is good battery(s) has some issues dying maybe a bad alternator I'm not sure and this isn't my forte yet I will continue to look into causes for this and I appreciate and thoughts or help on this truck I've had it for 3 days and I love it, excited to be back on the road again
#23
03-04-2018, 08:16 AM
Been flushing it out, it's incredibly dirty in there, but the gas sending unit on it still functions perfectly fine, the fuel line looks good, haven't looked at the pump yet though. Been trying to tackle a tachometer that doesn't function, so I removed the gauge cluster to find nothing even plugs into it, so I must have bad wiring somewhere and I'm working through that while I let some diluted vinegar peel away the rust in the tank.
Also, got copper compression terminals for the battery connection instead of the normal ones.
Also, got copper compression terminals for the battery connection instead of the normal ones.
On the Tech it could be that you have the wrong printed wire board as the tech uses a different one than non-tech ones.
Thanks for humoring me and checking the charging system voltage. No fix yet, but that's one thing ruled out. Those copper compression terminals should work well, too. It's hard to describe how much I hate that other style of flimsy "emergency" terminals.
The dead tach? From the Unsolicited Advice department, I'd suggest sticking to one crisis at a time, in this case the unpredictable dying problem. If working an unrelated issue, it's way too easy to accidentally create a new fault without realizing it. Meanwhile, you find and fix original fault A but you don't realize it because of new fault B mimicking A. This will drive you crazy trying to figure it out, and can lead to replacing perfectly good, expensive parts. I don't care to discuss how I learned this. My personal motto: As little as possible for as long as it takes.
The rusty gas tank? Cleaning is almost always a waste of time. Often times any chemical treatment (even vinegar?) just slowly loosens the crud, and it continues to break free for months on end. Given the chance to spend your time and money, I'd spring for a new tank. Chem treatment might be worth a gamble for an irreplaceable tank like on a 1948 Tucker, but with replacements readily available at a reasonable price for our trucks, well...
The dead tach? From the Unsolicited Advice department, I'd suggest sticking to one crisis at a time, in this case the unpredictable dying problem. If working an unrelated issue, it's way too easy to accidentally create a new fault without realizing it. Meanwhile, you find and fix original fault A but you don't realize it because of new fault B mimicking A. This will drive you crazy trying to figure it out, and can lead to replacing perfectly good, expensive parts. I don't care to discuss how I learned this.
My personal motto: As little as possible for as long as it takes.The rusty gas tank? Cleaning is almost always a waste of time. Often times any chemical treatment (even vinegar?) just slowly loosens the crud, and it continues to break free for months on end. Given the chance to spend your time and money, I'd spring for a new tank. Chem treatment might be worth a gamble for an irreplaceable tank like on a 1948 Tucker, but with replacements readily available at a reasonable price for our trucks, well...
If he was to get a new tank what would he do with his time not needed to fix the fuel system?
I do know of a company that can fix & coat tanks you can no longer get. I had to do that for another project I have.
Dave ----
#24
03-04-2018, 09:21 AM
What I should have said:
Most consumer-level cleaning or chem treatment products are a waste of time and money. Try as you might, you typically can't get the tank innards clean enough. A professional outfit is a different story. They've got all the fancy equipment, industrial grade chemicals, and the know-how. Send them your old tank and what you get back looks like new, inside and out.
#25
03-04-2018, 10:16 AM
LOL I did get what you were saying, it is not worth the time to try and clean a tank that will most likely fail when you can get new tanks.
I was just pointing out if you have a car or truck you cant get a new tank for, like my 70 AMC Javelin, there are options.
I used https://www.gastankrenu.com/ out of PA when I lived in CT for the Javelin.
You never know when one of use may get something they don't make parts for (Javelin) and remember something like this for a fuel tank.
Dave ----
I was just pointing out if you have a car or truck you cant get a new tank for, like my 70 AMC Javelin, there are options.
I used https://www.gastankrenu.com/ out of PA when I lived in CT for the Javelin.
You never know when one of use may get something they don't make parts for (Javelin) and remember something like this for a fuel tank.
Dave ----
#27
04-12-2018, 09:42 PM
Okay guys, I'm back.
Gas is good now, fuel filter is fine, flow isn't an issue I don't think, died a bit earlier the second time I tried to take it back out again with a completely full battery reading 13.5 V before I put it in the truck, a functioning alternator, and good fuel in the line and in the filter. It stuttered slightly on the end of the drive and about 40 feet later the engine stopped entirely. Still had power, seatbelt buzzer and light was on, tried to start the truck again, starter fired slightly, engine fired once or twice, then nothing. Try to start it again, no fire from the starter.
To recap:
1983 Ford F-150 4x4 Flareside, 351 Windsor engine, C6 Transmission, 45000 miles
What's been replaced since the beginning of the year (related or not, this is everything):
-Battery
-Starter
-Distributor
-Coil
-Carb (Edelbrock 1406)
-Starter Relay
-Gas Tank
-Filters
-All fluids
-Front Disc Brakes
-Front Rotors
-Front Hub Assemblies
I'm officially out of my element and unsure of what to look for aside from going over the entire wiring harness and hoping something pops up. Thinking maybe a short, because the starter stops firing after it dies, but the truck still has power and the battery after I took it out of the truck post-engine death was sitting at 95% charge and 12.5 V.
I'm really not sure of what can cause it to not want to start AND engine death. Alternatively, two separate issues that happen simultaneously, but then what? Maybe a short in combination with a finnicky ignition switch? Just kind of thinking out loud here, I'm at a loss now. I've been looking over the electrical connections and taping and re-tubing any wiring that looks iffy, and zip-tying them away from the engine and trying to make the connections better. Anybody have any ideas?
Gas is good now, fuel filter is fine, flow isn't an issue I don't think, died a bit earlier the second time I tried to take it back out again with a completely full battery reading 13.5 V before I put it in the truck, a functioning alternator, and good fuel in the line and in the filter. It stuttered slightly on the end of the drive and about 40 feet later the engine stopped entirely. Still had power, seatbelt buzzer and light was on, tried to start the truck again, starter fired slightly, engine fired once or twice, then nothing. Try to start it again, no fire from the starter.
To recap:
1983 Ford F-150 4x4 Flareside, 351 Windsor engine, C6 Transmission, 45000 miles
What's been replaced since the beginning of the year (related or not, this is everything):
-Battery
-Starter
-Distributor
-Coil
-Carb (Edelbrock 1406)
-Starter Relay
-Gas Tank
-Filters
-All fluids
-Front Disc Brakes
-Front Rotors
-Front Hub Assemblies
I'm officially out of my element and unsure of what to look for aside from going over the entire wiring harness and hoping something pops up. Thinking maybe a short, because the starter stops firing after it dies, but the truck still has power and the battery after I took it out of the truck post-engine death was sitting at 95% charge and 12.5 V.
I'm really not sure of what can cause it to not want to start AND engine death. Alternatively, two separate issues that happen simultaneously, but then what? Maybe a short in combination with a finnicky ignition switch? Just kind of thinking out loud here, I'm at a loss now. I've been looking over the electrical connections and taping and re-tubing any wiring that looks iffy, and zip-tying them away from the engine and trying to make the connections better. Anybody have any ideas?
#28
04-12-2018, 10:28 PM
It stuttered slightly on the end of the drive and about 40 feet later the engine stopped entirely. Still had power, seatbelt buzzer and light was on, tried to start the truck again, starter fired slightly, engine fired once or twice, then nothing. Try to start it again, no fire from the starter.
"Starter fired slightly" - Does that mean the starter turned slower than normal when the key was held to the start position? This is separate from whether the engine actually tried to run, as in fuel getting ignited inside the cylinders, smoke from the exhaust, etc. For this question, I'm only asking about starter speed as it tried to spin the crankshaft and move the pistons up and down.
I ask because the initial engine dying seems like a fuel problem, but the inability to restart appears to be electrical.
#29
04-13-2018, 01:29 AM
A quick terminology check, please!
"Starter fired slightly" - Does that mean the starter turned slower than normal when the key was held to the start position? This is separate from whether the engine actually tried to run, as in fuel getting ignited inside the cylinders, smoke from the exhaust, etc. For this question, I'm only asking about starter speed as it tried to spin the crankshaft and move the pistons up and down.
I ask because the initial engine dying seems like a fuel problem, but the inability to restart appears to be electrical.
"Starter fired slightly" - Does that mean the starter turned slower than normal when the key was held to the start position? This is separate from whether the engine actually tried to run, as in fuel getting ignited inside the cylinders, smoke from the exhaust, etc. For this question, I'm only asking about starter speed as it tried to spin the crankshaft and move the pistons up and down.
I ask because the initial engine dying seems like a fuel problem, but the inability to restart appears to be electrical.
Sure, sorry about the lack of clarity. The starter fired as normal while the key was turned, speed included, and the engine fired as normal as well UNTIL it stopped firing, it seemed abrupt, and upon turning the key over again we received no start engagement and no pistons firing. Does that clear it up a bit more?
#30
04-13-2018, 11:36 AM