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IVR swap?

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Old 01-26-2018, 12:19 AM
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IVR swap?

I need to change out the IVR on my 88 E150.

There are 2 different IVRs with the 9volt battery style snap on connectors.
C9AZ-10804-A GR-512 Typically used on older cars from the 69's up through 1990 ranger, mustang, Troina, Ford Trucks, ect

D1AZ-10804-A GR-513 Typically used on on cars and trucks fron tye early 70s through the early 90s. It too was used on Ford Trucks, Rangers, adn Ebay shows it first being used on econolines in 1987..

The issue is that I believe the GR-513 is the one used on my van. I happen to have a new GR-512 on hand. the mounting bracket or metal housing the GR-512 and GR-513 are different. Also the regulator itself is turned around 180 degrees in the housing. My question is do both regulators operate the same? They are both 12volts. My plan is to take the IVR itself out of the housings and swap the GR-512 into the GR-513 housing and see if it works in my van.
Any thoughts about this? The Motorcraft brand GR-513 runs around $35 and on up while I bought the GR-512 for $11. so I thought I would give it a shot.

GR-512



GR-513
 
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Old 01-26-2018, 07:45 AM
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My info shows all the 12v IVR's for Ford gauges are the same. Doesn't matter what connectors or housing. Slide on terminals Ford # C6DZ-10804-A, Motorcraft GR-510, Standard VRC603 & Ford B9-10804, Motorcraft GR-508, Standard VRC604. Button terminals Ford D1AZ-10804-A, Motorcraft GR-513, Standard VRC606 & Ford C9AZ-10804-A, Motorcraft GR-512, Standard VRC607
 
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Old 01-26-2018, 02:02 PM
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Thanks Bold1 for verifying that.. My second brain cell must have just fired because I just remembered that I pulled a dash with gauges and the light/wiper panel and switches w/delay out of a late 80s ford van a couple of years ago and have it in a box somewhere. I am sure it has the IVR on it but I wold rather put the new one on since I have it.

I'll report back when I get around to swapping the IVR and let you know how it goes.
Someone in the truck forum took theirs apart and replaced it with an electronic one they made that would fit back in the housing.
I am guessing the IRV is my problem. The temp gauge was reading way to high so I put in a new sending unit, same thing. So I installed a mechanical gauge and the temp is fine. The fuel gauge pegs way past full when the tank is full and once you see it start dropping, it falls to empty within 150 miles. The oil pressure gauge reads near the A on NORMAL when I first start the engine and then drops down to the R after warming up. BUT if I cut the engine off for just a minute or so after the engine is warm and then start it back up, the needle goes right back to the A for a few minutes. The fuel sending unit and pump is new but I do see a little fluctuation in the gauge needle sometimes.

What maintenance would you do while you had the dash out if it were yours?
Bulbs? Maybe LED?

Hazard Flasher? (its taped to the instrument cluster harness just behind the instrument cluster)

My speed odometer cable is making a little squeaking noise but the needle stays steady. I have a brand new Ford OEM cable assembly with housing but thinking maybe I should try to grease this one first. ?
 
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Old 01-26-2018, 06:20 PM
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Whatever you think you can't get to( or don't want to dig for later). The stock dash bulbs really don't take much power, but the LED's last forever. I'd pull that cable and check it. If it looks good, I'd just lube it. They usually last as long as the vehicle if they are aren't dry.
 
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Old 03-13-2018, 06:27 PM
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Since i am slow at getting around to doing things, I just wanted to update what I have done so far.
Hopefully will be removing the instrument panel this weekend and changing the ivr, bulbs and lubing the speedometer cable.

Here is the GR-512




Here is the GR-513 used in the 88 vans




I used a pair of needle nose pliers to bend the tabs back in order to turn the IVR around in the housing. The metal housing is fairly easy to bend and I made sure to bend it no more then needed to remove the IVR. I have no idea why but if you notice in the pic below that there appears to be a cut place on the plastic along with the copper grounding tab. I am not sure if that is something from the manufacturing process where it was held and crimped or not but it was like that from the box.



It fit perfectly back in the housing, I just need to bend the tabs back over. When bending the tabs back over one needs to be sure and clamp the side with the copper tab down very tight as it is the ground for the IVR through the metal housing. I haven't crimped it back yet because I want to take the old one out of my van and make sure this one will indeed fit. If not i will simply swap the IVR into my housing from the instrument cluster.



Here is where it fits on the back of the instrument cluster, You can see the mounting screw that holds the IVR to the cluster. If I use the GR-512 housing I will need to drill out a hole in the mounting bracket for the mounting screw.



What does the IVR look like inside?



This one I had on hand, and the fact that it has the cut place on the plastic along with the copper tab, I wonder if it is any good or not. Perhaps the cut was put there for a reason.
Looking closer inside everything appears to be in good shape with nothing burned into. The wound copper wire is soldered to the underside of the upper contact arm. From there it is wound around the upper contact arm 30 times. The last loop appears to be a lose loop and as the end goes over to and is soldered to the flat copper grounding tab, that wire also touches the bottom contact arm. I will tighten that last loop and move the wire off the lower contact arm before putting it back together. Perhaps if it was new but non working, that wire touching the lower contact was the issue. WE will see!



If this works it might save someone some money. When I last scanned Ebay for a Motorcraft IVR, the GR-513 was around $70 while I found a couple of the GR-512 for half of that price. Who doesn't want to save $35 or $40 bucks? That can buy another part for your old van or some refreshments while working on it!
It is a very simple device. I would assume that when they go bad, either the contact burns like old points, the copper wire burns or becomes weakened, or the ground is partially lost. I will let you all know what I find when I take the old one apart.
 
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Old 03-14-2018, 08:53 AM
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Never had to deal with an IVR. I presume that stands for Instrument Voltage Regulator? From the photos I'd say that Ford's solution is 1930's technology! Regulator looks like a bi-metal contact with a heater wire wrapped around it. If that item had failed on my van I'd rebuild that little can with a 3 Terminal Voltage Regulator inside it. You could solder the leads directly to the 9v clip terminals if you wanted. The regulator I'm talking about only requires 3 connections. (1) 12v input, (2) Ground and (3) 9v output and could be heatsinked to the can if needed. Cost is under $2. Example
 
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Old 03-14-2018, 02:45 PM
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Yes correct, Instrument Voltage Regulator. I have seen some call it cluster or panel. ICVR or IPVR.
The 3 Terminal Voltage Regulator sounds like a great idea and wold be really simple to do and far less money ten buying a ford IVR. Seems like I ran across a post about someone building their own in the past and they said it works fine.

BUT NOW,, here is a subject for discussion..
If I understand correctly the 3 Terminal Voltage Regulator would supply constant 9 volts to the gauges? I may be wrong but many of the threads I have read say the stock IVR puts to around 5volts and 12 volts will fry the gauges. A couple of the comments said that the gauges can handle up to 9 volts without a problem. If needed can that 3 Terminal Voltage Regulator be bought with a lower voltage?

Another comment I came across is that the older Ford gauges themselves are thermoelectric??
Here is a couple of pictures of the inside of older gauges. Don't know if they are ford or not but they show a bi-metal part warped with a wire also similar to the original IVR..




So in the comment the guy was talking about temperature differences affecting the accuracy of the gauges. The bi-metal arm on stock IVR heats up and opens the contact, cools down and closes again, over and over. This also has to work along with the bi-metal strip in the gauge itself applying pulses of current to the bi-metal strip on the gauge itself. I would guess if you just applied constant 12 volts to the gauge it would simply burn the wire warped around the bi-metal bar, hence the voltage reduction and pulsing.
Back to the temperature though.. The comment was saying suppose it is 0F outside. Te stock IVR has to heat the bi-metal contact longer to get it to open. If the ambient temp is 100F then the IVR would not need to be heated as long before it opened. The outside temperature also affects the bi-metal strip in the gauges too. So the question is how does a constant voltage from the 3 terminal voltage regulator affect the accuracy of the gauges in various temperatures?
 
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Old 03-14-2018, 08:56 PM
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Well Jeffrey from everything I have read about people using the 3 terminal voltage regulator, they seem to be working fine with no one else mentioning temperature making a difference.
I also looked up and found a L7806CV - Linear Voltage Regulator and its output is 6V. Since I am far from even an electronics novice, why would you choose the 9volt over the 6volt? Do they make a clip on heat sink for these?
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/STMicroelectronics/L7806CV?qs=sGAEpiMZZMtUqDgmOWBjgFT73J8IMPhWn3oyaqs DhaY%3d


EDIT


Well I did a bit more research. That regulator is small enough (I think) to fit inside the old IVR housing but the corners and sides of the housing are rounded so I don't think it would fit flat on the bottom inside the housing. I was thinking the housing cold be used as a heat sink.
I read that the amp draw for the gauges is close to 1amp and the regulator is rated at 1.5. I don't know how hot it would get with out a heat sink.
The original IVR housing grounds through a screw to the back of the instrument cluster. Perhaps if a person used a heat sink and used a standoff, say 1/2" or so and a longer mounting screw, perhaps they could mount it to the instrument panel without worrying about heat. What do you think?


 
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