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460 Straight up cam timing

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Old 01-21-2018, 12:31 AM
wacoustahonyock
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460 Straight up cam timing

My '76 F350's radiator started leaking the other day so I have pulled it and it is at the shop getting fixed. Also getting my auxiliary fuel tank cleaned since the inside was coated in rust from sitting with ethanol before I bought the truck

While it is out I am going to replace my water pump, and do the straight up timing set.

I am also going to replace the harmonic damper since when I tried to time it the other day it appears to have slipped. I know it was at least close a year ago when I had to go through emissions, but now it isn't even in the same ballpark.

For those that have done a timing set on a 460, other than the gasket set and timing set is there anything else that I might need that I might not be thinking about?
 
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Old 01-21-2018, 01:32 AM
1TonBasecamp
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Talk about the typical snowball effect! A radiator turns into a timing gear and water pump change too.
I guess that's better than my last snowball though. I leaky heater core turned into a full engine rebuild!

Sorry I can't help other than to offer encouragement. Can't think of anything off-hand that you might need other than what you've described.
Fuel pump eccentrics are usually good for the life of the engine, but it doesn't hurt to inspect it.
You could consider advancing the cam a couple of degrees more I suppose. Brings the torque peak down a little lower in the rpm range.
Need an idler pulley for the A/C system if you have that?

Thermostat while it's out?

Good luck.

Paul
 
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Old 01-21-2018, 01:57 AM
Shortbox4x4
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How many miles you got on the engine? Are you pulling it out of the truck to do the work? If so....

My 460 had 99,5k when I pulled it out of a ‘77 F350 Camper Special 2wd. Ran like a watch but being as I was swapping it into my ‘77 F150 4x4 I did all the stuff you mentioned but also installed a new high volume oil pump. I had to swap the oil pan anyway and with the pan off it was easier/less of a hassle putting on a new double roller timing chain and correcting the cam timing. The new oil pump to me was cheap insurance being as I had the engine out.
 
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Old 01-21-2018, 09:11 PM
wacoustahonyock
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Originally Posted by 1TonBasecamp View Post
Talk about the typical snowball effect! A radiator turns into a timing gear and water pump change too.
I guess that's better than my last snowball though. I leaky heater core turned into a full engine rebuild!

Sorry I can't help other than to offer encouragement. Can't think of anything off-hand that you might need other than what you've described.
Fuel pump eccentrics are usually good for the life of the engine, but it doesn't hurt to inspect it.
You could consider advancing the cam a couple of degrees more I suppose. Brings the torque peak down a little lower in the rpm range.
Need an idler pulley for the A/C system if you have that?

Thermostat while it's out?

Good luck.

Paul
Mostly just doing stuff I've wanted to do, but have not had the motivation to take the truck out of commission since it is my daily driver. The tank has been off ever since I fixed the rear plastic one. Once I realized how bad it was when running one of those clear WIX fuel filters. There was so much crap in the bottom of that tank. It actually clogged 1/2 the carb and I had to do a full rebuild.

Getting rid of the factory 8 retard on the cam I think should be more than enough for me.

Thermostat is less than 2 years old, though I have a new Stant Superstat 195 sitting in a box though that I am thinking I might like to install in place of the 165.

I had the A/C idler off just before last summer, bearings felt great.

I run an electric fuel pump due to vapor lock issues with gasahol crap that comes at all the pumps here. When it gets over 100 in the summer, at the 2500ft+ elevation the gas just loved to go to vapor with the mechanical fuel pump.
 
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Old 01-21-2018, 09:26 PM
wacoustahonyock
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Originally Posted by Shortbox4x4 View Post
How many miles you got on the engine? Are you pulling it out of the truck to do the work? If so....

My 460 had 99,5k when I pulled it out of a 77 F350 Camper Special 2wd. Ran like a watch but being as I was swapping it into my 77 F150 4x4 I did all the stuff you mentioned but also installed a new high volume oil pump. I had to swap the oil pan anyway and with the pan off it was easier/less of a hassle putting on a new double roller timing chain and correcting the cam timing. The new oil pump to me was cheap insurance being as I had the engine out.
I'm assuming the engine is original with no rebuilds in its past since the previous owner appears to have kept every receipt in a pouch in the glove box, so 180k. It still seems to be in good condition based upon my emissions test, vacuum gauge checks and the ol' butt dyno.

I am just leaving it in place for the minimal approach. I have wanted to correct the cam timing ever since I bought the truck and I already had a refurb water pump that came with the truck, so I figure might as well while the timing cover has to come off anyway.

I am planning a full rebuild of the motor when the truck is no longer my sole vehicle and I pay off my Harley. Saving up until that point. Also going to install the 4:1 T19A I have sitting in my garage since driving a truck with a stick is much more enjoyable to me. I've now gathered up just about everything for that swap short of the appropriate clutch for a big inch stroker and the longer prop shaft to account for the shorter length of the 4 speed vs the C6.
 
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:54 AM
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Be careful regarding the seal on the crankshaft. Some are internally installed; some are externally installed. Get the right set. Also some sets have a repair sleeve for the crankshafts that are significantly worn at the seal; others don't.
Also be careful with the oil slinger. Some timing sets run very close to the slinger. (Some too close.) On mine I made a spacer just to be sure it would clear. Some people omit the slinger, but that means the seal will get more oil on it. Other people "distort" the slinger to get more clearance.
 
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Old 01-23-2018, 09:11 AM
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You probably know this, but if you have a timing set with multiple keyways, 'straight up' on a BBF is always the keyway that aligns with the marked chain tooth. In the below pic, "0" is actually retarded and the "+4" (triangle) is actually 'straight up'.

 
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Old 01-23-2018, 06:22 PM
wacoustahonyock
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I ended up buying the Cloyes C-3079 (for 88-97 EFI) set that just has straight up only. Make it easy on myself.
 
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Old 01-24-2018, 12:32 AM
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Can you still pass emissions with the straight up set?
 
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:15 AM
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I wouldn't pay extra for the gasket/seal kit with the repair sleeve. The sleeve is junk and doesn't come with an installation tool or a way to install it properly. If you need a sleeve, spend extra and get a real speedi-sleeve that has a lip and the tool to drive it on.
 
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Old 01-24-2018, 04:30 PM
palmrose2
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Originally Posted by mountain dewd View Post
Can you still pass emissions with the straight up set?
This is what I was wondering. I did a bunch of work on my 351M above the block, IE: cam, and deleted all smog stuff. But I don't have to pass a test.
 
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by palmrose2 View Post
This is what I was wondering. I did a bunch of work on my 351M above the block, IE: cam, and deleted all smog stuff. But I don't have to pass a test.
I fear it will not, because emissions are the only reason they would put such a miserable cam in there, in the first place. I would like to do a straight up timing set in my 1978 bronco, but it has to pass emissions and I don't have the heart to tear apart my 22,000 mile motor.
 
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:17 PM
wacoustahonyock
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Originally Posted by mountain dewd View Post
Can you still pass emissions with the straight up set?
considering how far I was from any of the limits, I'm sure I can with a fresh tune up and oil change right before. Need be I can cheat it and retard the ignition timing a bit more. Worst case I have a cat that I can easily bolt on and pull right back off. It is idle only test so pretty easy to tune it as long as it isn't misfiring...
 
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