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7.3L shutdown won't restart but, will crank till batteries die

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Old 01-21-2018, 01:10 AM
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Exclamation 7.3L shutdown won't restart but, will crank till batteries die

For over a week now I have been trying different searches here & google for ANY forum thread on the current mystery in my lap.

facts: 7.3L is the early 99. I was driving to next client, noticed speed was slowly dropping, RPM's wwould not increase when pedal pushed further. Pulled into gas station, parked, let idle for a bit & it shut off after maybe 8-10 seconds. Waited a few moments then tried to restart it 2X. Nope. Called friend if he'd be able to come get me, and be able to stop by O'rielly's for a fuel filter.
HE did, and we swapped it out. bowl filled up and wouldn't start but, cranked more and the batteries started to show drain... I stopped & we left for the time being.

I towed truck to his shop over 2 weeks ago.

overnight trickle charged batteries.
1St) test was to get a CPS & swap out... at ~$25 its a cheap test (in the big picture)
-----That did nothing different... crank till batteries give out, no start.

More searches... Next part to swap out:
2nd) swapped out the ICP (test part cost ~$160 but, as oil was past the diaphram & in the connector wires it was a needed replacement)
Now had read a few threads talk of watching for any smoke out exhaust as well as listening for fuel pump on frame rail. (CHECK)
---- No smoke at all & the pump does in fact run for usual time length.

So now we have this list:
so far
  1. 10.5 volts while cranking? yes 2x only UNTIL WE REPLACED THE BATTERIES for epic FAIL in one & CCA dropped to just over 500 in other.
  2. any smoke out the exhaust while cranking? NO, STILL Nothing after batteries replaced
  3. Is the fuel bowl full? yes, I drained it 3 times so far and it refilled - like usual
  4. fuel pump initializing PSI? yes (as stated before)
  5. Is the HPOP reservoir full? -UNKOWN-I have yet to check this. The cold snap we've had the last 2 weeks & my flu-like fun limited my energy level!
  6. Does your WTS light come on every time? yes - AS ALWAYS, no change... The olny time it acted wierd is when the one battery died.
  7. Do you have an SES light at any time? no, EXCEPT when the ICP was unplugged for attempting the "Default 500PSI test) THAT DIDN't workout.
  8. Have you inspected the IPR plug and wiring? yes, clean & not brittle. HAVE NOT checked for Ohm or Voltage between the wires or terminals on the IPR.
  9. Have you inspected the main harness that feeds the engine harness at the driver's side valve cover? Not closely yet. I admit to likeing to keep my engine bay clean. Almost OCD-like, so the plug is at kleast rather clean and plyable- I will a$$ume at this point...
  10. Do you have any way to scan for live data? yes, partially. I have a scangaugeii and it will show some stuff
  11. RPM? yes ~150-160+/-
  12. Voltage? yes even before the new batteries
  13. Loop (open or closed)? yes - although I forgot right now which it was when trying to start.
**14. My friend who's shop its at asked the interesting question, "Do You know if the cam is actually spinning? I told him that I A$$UMED it was as the crank IS spinning.
**15. next i swapped the IDM to my '99 crewcab that is currently running fine. It started right up with the IDM From the dead truck.... So, I just reinstalled the IDM back in the dead truck.
**16) UVCH? I hope that removing the valve covers is not in my future.

So, in recap as of today, the data I can say as fact.
Batteries, CPS & IPR are new. Oil level is very stable *in the zone*, All fuses are good & not even close to warped.

Looks like I may need to make a IPR removal & cleaning next? (shrugs)

I can't recall anything else to share that I have seen in other threads.



Thanks in advance folks.
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Old 01-21-2018, 02:55 AM
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AllaboutMPG AllaboutMPG is offline
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with all the work done so far I'm sure you've checked but I have to ask- what is the engine oil level? If it's to low she won't run.

I'm not familiar with scangauge... does it show ICP? If so what oil pressure are you getting to?


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Old 01-21-2018, 10:04 AM
SaintITC SaintITC is offline
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No smoke at all means no fuel in the cylinders, so that says the injectors are not firing. If your ICP remains low, then the PCM will not command the injectors to fire. I have an IPR that looked good but still did not allow the HPOP to build pressure. I think the solenoid part failed as it was an on-off intermittent failure until it died completely. The IPR is actually fairly simple to replace, easier than the IDM I think. Since you have a running CC, trying switching those.

The PCM does not look at fuel pressure, so unless both fuel lines are completely blocked, I'd expect some smoke even from a failing fuel supply.
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Old 01-21-2018, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by AllaboutMPG View Post
with all the work done so far I'm sure you've checked but I have to ask- what is the engine oil level? If it's to low she won't run.

I'm not familiar with scangauge... does it show ICP? If so what oil pressure are you getting to?


.
Dang-it(snaps fingers) I forgot to put the "Oil level" data in post....

yes oil was a little low but, still on the stick. Added some to put it high in the "good zone".
As for the Scangaugeii I don't see an option (in the model I have) for ICP & I need to get the firmware upgrade for oil PSI too.

I have been using them for years on almost all our vehicles....the latest one has the newer firmware and allows for current mpg & now avg mpg.

for some reason I haven't looked into it -the 7.3L ECM doesn't send water temp data out for the scangaugeii to pick up... yet all the other vehicles I have will.
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Old 01-21-2018, 01:08 PM
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No smoke at all means no fuel in the cylinders, so that says the injectors are not firing. If your ICP remains low, then the PCM will not command the injectors to fire. I have an IPR that looked good but still did not allow the HPOP to build pressure. I think the solenoid part failed as it was an on-off intermittent failure until it died completely. The IPR is actually fairly simple to replace, easier than the IDM I think. Since you have a running CC, trying switching those.

The PCM does not look at fuel pressure, so unless both fuel lines are completely blocked, I'd expect some smoke even from a failing fuel supply.
As I have learned that the ICP is basically below the fuel bowl, I think this idea of swapping is worthwhile *NEXT*. as for me swap-testing the IDM versus this.... I could sit on ground in between vehicles and manhandle inner fender well alot easier in 30-40*F windy weather then precariously balanced over a cold engine with a hood that likes to fall in that cold or air.Yes I have discovered the hood's cylinder is wearing out in this cold snap. another little thing to deal with.... yet, above 40*F it holds fine.

I did read the thread (lost that tab in my browser fail) about the removal & cleaning of the ICP with all those awesome pictures.... can't figure out where it was as I accidentally ran across it.
I'm tempted to put the Extended cabs ICP into & test start the CC with it... then try the CC ICP in the extened cab as I know it runs.
Wish I could find it and figure out the time It might take me to do a swap & clean them both while testing... (makes sense to clean them both when done testing right?)

Now back to dead f350, its a 360K engine that has had a 1micron bypass oil system & HPX installled since ~180K. When we swapped the fuel filter when it was at the gas station, the old one was actually really clean looking.

Added side notes: I recently moved that 1 micron kit to the CC when I got it (and a few other mod's) as I was preping to sell this currently dead extended cab. I also had two HPX's made and I gave the CC its 1st & the dead one a fresh hose too. The 1st one was on for 10 years and never leaked but, had gotten kinda stiff. Figured it the honorable thing to do for next owner.
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Old 01-21-2018, 02:19 PM
Walleye Hunter Walleye Hunter is offline
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A couple of things here...the automatic trans models use the wire that would be used to read coolant temp to read trans temp so you cannot read coolant temp with a scanner. You are confusing the ICP with the IPR. The ICP is on the driver's side head just adjacent to the fuel bowl, the IPR mounts down beside/below the fuel bowl. While we're on the IPR, did you check to see if the tinnerman nut is still on it? They can fall off and stop the truck from running.
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Old 01-21-2018, 02:39 PM
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Adding a picture for the ICP / IPR clarification.
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Old 01-21-2018, 02:40 PM
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and an IPR cleaning video

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Old 01-21-2018, 02:43 PM
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Your original post is hard to follow the way it is written...

Did you replace the batteries (both) with new? I've read that the HPOP won't crank enough pressure to fire the injectors on weak batteries, but they will spin the engine for a while so they don't seem bad. Check your connections and cables too, clean terminals, all that nonsense.

9 in 10 times when there is no start it is battery related. It took me a long time to realize I had **** batteries.
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Old 01-21-2018, 02:53 PM
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Since you have 2 vehicles you could try swapping the solenoid on the IPR from the running truck.
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Old 01-21-2018, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beef **** View Post
Your original post is hard to follow the way it is written...

Did you replace the batteries (both) with new? I've read that the HPOP won't crank enough pressure to fire the injectors on weak batteries, but they will spin the engine for a while so they don't seem bad. Check your connections and cables too, clean terminals, all that nonsense.

9 in 10 times when there is no start it is battery related. It took me a long time to realize I had **** batteries.
I had this issue recently and it was the fuel cutoff in the passenger side kick panel. Then suddenly yesterday, I had a cranl but no start again while at the store.
I found that i had a loose terminal on the passenger battery. Cleaned and cranked em down and she fired right up.
loose and/or corroded terminals can also cause this.
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Old 01-21-2018, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by beef **** View Post
Your original post is hard to follow the way it is written...

Did you replace the batteries (both) with new? I've read that the HPOP won't crank enough pressure to fire the injectors on weak batteries, but they will spin the engine for a while so they don't seem bad. Check your connections and cables too, clean terminals, all that nonsense.

9 in 10 times when there is no start it is battery related. It took me a long time to realize I had **** batteries.
YES, both new batteries now, terminals are very clean & scuffed for good lead contact. I have checked all known terminals for cleanliness and good contacts.
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Old 01-21-2018, 03:53 PM
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A couple of things here...the automatic trans models use the wire that would be used to read coolant temp to read trans temp so you cannot read coolant temp with a scanner. You are confusing the ICP with the IPR. The ICP is on the driver's side head just adjacent to the fuel bowl, the IPR mounts down beside/below the fuel bowl. While we're on the IPR, did you check to see if the tinnerman nut is still on it? They can fall off and stop the truck from running.
I am sorry IF my OP seems mixed up... I tried to keep clear the acronyms I used.

I DID in fact make the
1st part replacement as the fuel filter
2nd part the CPS
3rd part i replaced is the ICP --> Thanks to AllaboutMPG's posting below your reply of a picture IDing all stuff

that is why I said that I tried the IDM swap next due to cold over the IPR

I plan to try the IPR next..

And for full transparency
CC is a running e99 7.3L w/6spd
Extended cab is an e99 7.3L w/4R100 auto (not running)

again sorry for any miss-grammar steps. My dyslexia does flare up in embarrassing moments still.
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Old 01-21-2018, 03:56 PM
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Since you have 2 vehicles you could try swapping the solenoid on the IPR from the running truck.
a) thanks for posting that clarifying picture above in post #7

b) that's what I meant was my next step... just hadn't found the thread to show the cleaning.... thanks for also linking that in post #8 too!
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Old 01-21-2018, 03:59 PM
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A couple of things here...the automatic trans models use the wire that would be used to read coolant temp to read trans temp so you cannot read coolant temp with a scanner. You are confusing the ICP with the IPR. The ICP is on the driver's side head just adjacent to the fuel bowl, the IPR mounts down beside/below the fuel bowl. While we're on the IPR, did you check to see if the tinnerman nut is still on it? They can fall off and stop the truck from running.

Sorry I forgot to answer the last question:

regarding the tinnerman nut, I have not tried to remove the IPR yet, I just checked the two wires, the plug w/ spring clip quality and made sure they were good and clean. the IPR didn't seem to budge at all while i checked the wires & plug...
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