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My Interstate batteries are close to 4 years old. They work great when I drive the van everyday. Let the beast sit 1 week and I can feel it starting hard.
Has anyone installed AGM batteries?
I found AC Delco Professional AGM batteries at my local parts store for about $160 each. Amazon sells the same battery for $145.
AC Delco Professional AGM
It's a starting automotive battery. Not a marine deep cycle starting battery. I think it might be made by Johnson Controls. US made.
The AGM battery appeals to me because they last longer. I can buy Odyssey AGM Extreme batteries on Amazon for about $265 each. $100 price difference is no big deal for me-it's a diesel. Keeping the van running and on the road is important.
My van is bone stock. I have the 110 OEM Ford alternator. Sitting on a shelf is a rebuilt Ford 130 or 140 AMP alternator that I will install during the next serpentine belt replacement.
The AC Delco AGM battery is very likely made by Delkor in Korea, which was started by GM / Delco / Delphi in the mid 80s, and was later acquired by Johnson Controls. Delkor remains a GM supplier.
The Odyssey battery is made in the USA, although some thin plate manufacturing may be performed at a plant in England, where specialized equipment is located for the very difficult process of making the thin plates.
Based on Odyssey's proven track record, and based on Johnson Control's average, and sometimes less than average track record, I'd be inclined to choose the Odyssey.
Search the Excursion and the 7.3L forums for other recent and concurrent discussions on how to get Odyssey batteries for as little as $183. However, even at $270, I'd still be inclined to get the Odyssey, between the two batteries choices posed by coolfeet.
Thanks for all the help. The Odyssey batteries look amazing...however, I found Interstate lead-acid batteries for $92 each. That's about $200 for changing batteries every 3-4 years.
I am not a tightwad. I read through a lot of Too Many Toys posts and I have not seen AGM batteries under his hood. What caught my attention was the grounding cable video, Bosch alternator, smaller pulley, etc. I can do those upgrades for less than the price of 1 Odyssey Battery.
I just put a set of the Advance Auto AGM group 65s into my truck last month, and noticed it cranking faster immediately, and no issues with it sitting a week and barely cranking enough like I had before. My old batteries were down to 750 and 650CCA (they were 850s). The AGMs are only listed at 750, but I suspect they're higher because I bought a 750CCA for my jeep around the same time, and it tested at 950CCA! I didn't have them test the truck batteries before buying them, because I didn't think to.
They're ~$190 but you can buy online, find a 25-30% coupon code, and make 2 transactions to buy them both with the coupon, making each battery $133-143. I do this from right in the store on my phone, after checking the battery's date (and now, having it CCA tested).
They're made by Johnson controls, and are the same AGM battery Auto Zone sells, so go wherever you have the best coupon or rewards points, if you plan to get these.
They're made by Johnson controls, and are the same AGM battery Auto Zone sells.
In many cases, batteries are made by Johnson Controls. However, in this particular case, with Group 65 AGM batteries under the so called "Platinum" label, a moniker which both Advanced Auto and AutoZone copied from the reputation that Sear built with their seven year foray into reselling Odyssey batteries, the case might more likely be no. The Group 65 Platinum AGM batteries sold by Advanced Auto and AutoZone are made by East Penn, who also now makes Sears current top of the line DieHard "Gold" series AGM battery. And in all cases, who makes what for who depends on the year the battery was made, and on the group size of the battery.
For example, the following four photos will show two "Platinum AGM" batteries from Advanced Auto, under their brand Autocraft, and two "Platinum AGM" batteries from AutoZone, under their brand Duralast.
I'll get to the photos in a minute, but first let me take a moment to explain why I get on all these battery threads to share information. 'Cause I'm tired of all the brand name manufacturer cloaking that confuses consumers into buying batteries based on the reach of the marketing, the distant memory of a brand's former but now undeserved reputation, the lowness of the price, and the length of the warranty...rather than based on the merits of the battery's construction.
I want to know what's inside the case, because I hate dealing with batteries. It is well worth it to me to not have to touch batteries... not look at them... not open them... not clean them... not refill them... not grease them... not lift them in and out and over a tall fender... not bring them back to a store for testing... and not replace them every 3 or 4 years. Once I realized that batteries exist that I don't have to deal with, all the batteries in my fleet changed over to high quality AGM batteries. Note that I said high quality... not just AGM. Not just sealed. Not just high dollar. I'm looking for high quality.
In the quest to know which manufacturer is building the batteries behind the glittery curtains of all these "trusted" brand names, I find that this keeps changing every couple of years, and the long regarded list produced by jgarden that has circulated the net in many forms, is not necessarily accurate in every case, and that includes even the updated 2018 list.
Not only do I want to know... but I want everyone else to know too. The more the curtains are pulled back, the less likely consumers will by fooled by all the marketing glitter, as well as the purposely created obfuscation of which company manufactures what battery, where, and how. And since I cannot practically or truly know all there is to know about who is making which battery, I hope at least that sharing what I find out will inspire the curiosity of others, who in turn, might turn over a stone or two along their individual paths to see what is underneath. And in this common chorus of curiosity, spread among many who are similarly interested, more information might be revealed.
So, back to the photos:
Photo 1 is an Advanced Auto Autocraft Platinum AGM 65, manufactured by a private label division of East Penn:
Photo 2 is an AutoZone Duralast Platinum AGM 65, manufactured by a private label division of East Penn:
Photo 3 is an Advance Auto Autocraft Platinum AGM, not a Group 65
Photo 4 is an AutoZone Duralast Platinum AGM, not a Group 65
The point is made to illustrate that while it may be true that Johnson Controls makes a lot of batteries sold by the wax and oil auto parts chain stores, Johnson Controls does not make ALL of them. This is important to know for us, because the particular Group 65 size we all use in Ford diesel trucks and vans of this vintage is not one of the "Platinum AGM" batteries made by Johnson Controls.
This can be a significant factor in selection, because East Penn is responsible for manufacturing the very well regarded Deka brand of battery, the AGM version of which is called the Intimidator. East Penn has also manufactured many of the well regarded Caterpillar branded liquid lead acid batteries over the years. And as mentioned previously, East Penn manufacturers the Sears Die Hard GOLD AGM battery, under an agreement entered into after Sears discontinued their market changing Platinum line of Enersys built AGM batteries. Johnson Controls still manufactures the lower lines of Sears DieHard batteries.
Blanket statements I read elsewhere on the forums, like "all batteries are made either by Johnson Controls or Exide" seem like an over simplified way of stuffing the Pandora of battery manufacturing tidily back into a neat, easy to grasp little box. But with all the mergers, acquisitions, divestments, and diversifications of various manufacturing units in this business, Pandora slips out again through the seams of that box, making it so that each battery size, model and brand needs to be regarded individually as to who actually made the battery. And even that will depend on "when."
I based my statement about Johnson Controls making these AGM batteries on the first link below, and I happened to find another page that shows it (at the bottom of that page). It clearly shows the case and top design, with the molding and AGM XX for the size molded into the case. It's also in their video on that page, 46 seconds in and at the end. So unless there's something going on with multiple companies using that case, or they sold the product line off since June 2016, I think it's theirs. The article also says they supply to "automakers and aftermarket retailers."
In many cases, batteries are made by Johnson Controls. However, in this particular case, with Group 65 AGM batteries under the so called "Platinum" label, a moniker which both Advanced Auto and AutoZone copied from the reputation that Sear built with their seven year foray into reselling Odyssey batteries, the case might more likely be no. The Group 65 Platinum AGM batteries sold by Advanced Auto and AutoZone are made by East Penn, who also now makes Sears current top of the line DieHard "Gold" series AGM battery. And in all cases, who makes what for who depends on the year the battery was made, and on the group size of the battery.
For example, the following four photos will show two "Platinum AGM" batteries from Advanced Auto, under their brand Autocraft, and two "Platinum AGM" batteries from AutoZone, under their brand Duralast.
I'll get to the photos in a minute, but first let me take a moment to explain why I get on all these battery threads to share information. 'Cause I'm tired of all the brand name manufacturer cloaking that confuses consumers into buying batteries based on the reach of the marketing, the distant memory of a brand's former but now undeserved reputation, the lowness of the price, and the length of the warranty...rather than based on the merits of the battery's construction.
I want to know what's inside the case, because I hate dealing with batteries. It is well worth it to me to not have to touch batteries... not look at them... not open them... not clean them... not refill them... not grease them... not lift them in and out and over a tall fender... not bring them back to a store for testing... and not replace them every 3 or 4 years. Once I realized that batteries exist that I don't have to deal with, all the batteries in my fleet changed over to high quality AGM batteries. Note that I said high quality... not just AGM. Not just sealed. Not just high dollar. I'm looking for high quality.
In the quest to know which manufacturer is building the batteries behind the glittery curtains of all these "trusted" brand names, I find that this keeps changing every couple of years, and the long regarded list produced by jgarden that has circulated the net in many forms, is not necessarily accurate in every case, and that includes even the updated 2018 list
The point is made to illustrate that while it may be true that Johnson Controls makes a lot of batteries sold by the wax and oil auto parts chain stores, Johnson Controls does not make ALL of them. This is important to know for us, because the particular Group 65 size we all use in Ford diesel trucks and vans of this vintage is not one of the "Platinum AGM" batteries made by Johnson Controls.
This can be a significant factor in selection, because East Penn is responsible for manufacturing the very well regarded Deka brand of battery, the AGM version of which is called the Intimidator. East Penn has also manufactured many of the well regarded Caterpillar branded liquid lead acid batteries over the years. And as mentioned previously, East Penn manufacturers the Sears Die Hard GOLD AGM battery, under an agreement entered into after."
Are you using batteries manufactured by east penn in your fleet?
I based my statement about Johnson Controls making these AGM batteries on the first link below, and I happened to find another page that shows it (at the bottom of that page). It clearly shows the case and top design, with the molding and AGM XX for the size molded into the case. It's also in their video on that page, 46 seconds in and at the end. So unless there's something going on with multiple companies using that case, or they sold the product line off since June 2016, I think it's theirs. The article also says they supply to "automakers and aftermarket retailers."
And since I cannot practically or truly know all there is to know about who is making which battery, I hope at least that sharing what I find out will inspire the curiosity of others,who in turn, might turn over a stone or two
Thank for posting that information. Despite the number of times I have visited Johnson Controls website, I did not find that pdf. I have spoken with several people in the battery manufacturing industry who stated that East Penn manufactured AGM batteries for AutoZone. These conversations were sometime prior to 2016 however.
As previously mentioned, manufacturing information is often obfuscated, as well as continually changing, and I find it very hard to keep up with and pin down... so I appreciate your post. It is exactly why I keep posting on battery threads... to share what I've gathered, in the hopes that others will share what they've gathered too.
Let's take a look at East Penn's Deka Group 65 Intimidator AGM battery case:
However, it is not unreasonable for different battery manufacturers to use the same cases. For example, an automotive Lithium Polymer battery manufacturer (forgot the name at the moment) used the exact same plastic dual terminal external case that Enersys used on their 34/78 PC1500. Two different battery companies, using the same case. Not unheard of, but clearly not the case here.
Thanks again for providing another clue in this puzzle.
I'll just add to the confusion that while battery cases may be mostly the same, in the private label market what's inside can vary.
We sold aftermarket products under our own brand name, but also private labeled to various companies. Some didn't want pay as much so they could undercut the competition (and us) so those brake pads may not have had eye of newt added into the formula, and they knew it. Same tooling, same grinding, same paint, same noise insulator, just no eye of newt and a different edge code. You couldn't tell. But it was less expensive and possibly had an insert in the box about burnishing the pads with stops before you got all comfortable.
Just go to Wally world and get the Maxx 65 series and be done with it. Great price,good warranty,and they are everywhere. Sounds like a win,win,win to me
Are you using batteries manufactured by east penn in your fleet?
No.
I use Thin Plate Pure Lead (TPPL) AGM batteries. There are only two USA manufacturers who I am aware of who produce the type of batteries that I favor in the Group 65 size. One is Enersys, who produces them under the Hawker (for US Military) and Odyssey Extreme (for civilians) brand names.
Enersys formerly had an arrangement with Sears to produce Odyssey Extreme batteries rebranded under the Sears DieHard Platinum brand. That agreement ended, and was not renewed. Sears no longer markets batteries under the Platinum name. But everyone else seems to have adopted the Platinum name to ride on the coattails of the reputation of the Enersys built Sears Platinum battery.
The other is Northstar, a company that was started by four former employees of Enersys/Hawker, including the chief scientist, Dr Frank Fleming. The Northstar TPPL batteries are produced under the Northstar brand, as well as private labeled under Ascent's X2/Power label (with the blue tops only), sold by Batteries Plus.
I'm entering into my 10th year of service on one pair of Eneryss built TPPL batteries. I recently purchased a pair of Northstar built TPPL batteries for a GMC truck that I have. I use a YUASA built AGM battery as the starting battery for my Prius. This summer, I plan to buy four new batteries to power a 1,600 lb rated liftgate that I purchased last month for one of my trucks. I will use TPPL AGM batteries, not wet cells, for several reasons.
1. I have a couple of the type of frame mounted battery trays that you have one of under the passenger door of your van. I don't want to be dropping down those trays to check the cell level or add water to those batteries. I consider that too much hassle, when a solution already exists to avoid that hassle.
2. The truck frame isn't as isolated from vehicle vibration as the body is. The engine bay mounted batteries have the benefit of the body to frame rubber puck isolators that puts them another step further away from the rumble of the road. AGM batteries are significantly more vibration resistant, which not only helps maintain plate separation, but also keeps the acid from jiggling out of the refill cap vent holes.
3. I don't want the off gassing of liquid lead acid batteries lingering under the truck, exacerbating the already challenging enough fight against chassis corrosion.
4. Heat rises, cold condenses and lingers at the lowest points. The lower the batteries, the more vulnerable they are to freezing. To the extent that the freezing of a liquid substance will have a larger coefficient of expansion than the freezing of a substance that is not a liquid, the AGM batteries appear, by both function and specification, to be more tolerant of colder temperatures. A frame mounted battery will likely spend more of it's time colder than it's counterpart above in the cozy engine bay.
5. My experience with TPPL AGM batteries has been outstanding. No corrosion on the battery terminals. None on or inside the battery cables. No paint loss on the battery trays. No white or green fluff anywhere to be seen. I'm never going back to repainting battery trays everytime I change out batteries.
6. More important to me than a good battery warranty... is a good battery. If I have to change out two batteries (in pairs, right?) every three years, it isn't enough for me that the replacement batteries are free. Because they aren't. Invariably, the inconvenience of having dead batteries, at the wrong time and place, cost me more than the price premium of what the better batteries would have cost at time of purchase. And then there is the cost in time to remove the old batteries, have them tested, take them back home to charge them when they say the batteries need charging, take them back to the store again after charging for them to measure 12.3 volts under no load and tell me they are "good", argue with them about the need for both batteries to be equal in age and health, the fuel bought and the frustration spent on the back and forth trips, the reinstallation... after 40 years of all that I was done, once a battery was produced that eliminated a lot of that hassle. Price, warranty, quality. Pick any two. Price would be last on my list, and warranty second to last. I'm trying to buy a good battery.
Unless or until I learn, from posting on all these battery threads, that an even battery SLI or deep cycle battery is available in this form factor, my choice is currently TPPL AGM batteries. Not all AGM batteries are TPPL. I'm not sure if ANY of the Johnson Controls batteries are, including Delkor, Varta, Bosch, LTH, and other brands JC manufactures for auto parts chains. The closest might be the Optima's, but when Johnson Controls bought Optima and moved manufacturing to Mexico, they also quit using pure lead, and instead use an amalgam of recycled lead and other substances (reportedly). And, the spiral cell format is not as dense (energy storage per cubic inch) as that of the TPPL rectangular format.
Y2K,I used to think the same way as you,and there is nothing wrong with that mind set. But I guess I'm getting old or something,maybe cheap if you want to call it that. I think for what he's doing, the best bang for the buck is Wally World. Oh, and just to let you know,I think you are a wealth of information, I learned a lot tonight
I understand what you are saying. As I age, I find that I can't even walk as good as I used to run, and can't see in daylight as good as I used to be able to see in darkness. And with the erosion of capacity, comes an erosion in "give a *****"... and there are a lot of things I just don't give a hoot one way or another about today, that I was somewhat proficient at, and definitely passionate about, in times past.
But batteries isn't one of them. Not YET anyways. "Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, Rage, against the dying of the day..."
01-16-2018, 10:09 PM
