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  #1  
Old 01-01-2018, 11:45 PM
714shane 714shane is offline
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Crusty Injectors

I just pulled these injectors out of my recently purchased 2000 E350 7.3. I'm assuming they are original based on their appearance. I am in the process of replacing the injectors, glow plugs (only 2 of the 8 were functional) UVCH's and gaskets.

My question is.... Is it normal to have this much gunk on a old injector?

PS. The area under the tape is spotless.
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Old 01-02-2018, 02:50 AM
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No, that is not normal, or ok. You have a serious problem there. That is the fuel section of the injector, which means you have massive fuel system contamination problems. Spotlessly clean fuel is essential to these injectors, as with most diesels.

It could be oil contamination/cross over from a bad o-ring as well, but that would also mean your oil is beyond dirty.

Those injectors are useless to you at this point. Not saying they can't be re-built, but they would need that. Fully disassembling them would be the only way to clean out all the grit and assess any other damage, which is really beyond the scope of most DIY home mechanics. Send them to an injector builder, such as Full Force Diesel.

From there, you have a lot of work ahead of you. You need to meticulously flush out the entire fuel system, including the rails in the head and all the lines. You should probably drop the tank as well, and maybe also consider replacing the fuel pump. You said this was an E350 van. Do you have a metal fuel tank or plastic? There was a BIG problem with the metal tanks. The coating inside would fail and start to flake off and contaminate the fuel.

I would also take a hard look at the oil system as well, to make sure everything is clean and working properly.
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Old 01-02-2018, 03:17 AM
714shane 714shane is offline
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Thank you for the insight Carguy3j. I am replacing the injectors with some single shots as part of the upgrade. The van was to the point where it would not start when cold even during warm 70+ degree weather.

​​​​I have been burning some oil. Especially on mountain passes and grades. For example I would be down approximately a half quart with a 3000 elevation gain over 100 miles. I was thinking that some of that hardened crud could be from oil passing the injector rings over the years but my fuel bowl and filter have been very clean since I have owned the van. However I do remember pulling the fuel filter out when I first bought the van and it was black.

I have noticed that my oil temp stays around 213 degrees as well. After searching the web and reading forums this temp seems to be above average. Does any of this information help shine some light on a cause? There are no previous service records, I have only owned the vehicle since August 2017, and I have put about 3000 miles on it since the purchase.
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Old 01-02-2018, 03:17 AM
714shane 714shane is offline
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Thank you for the insight Carguy3j. I am replacing the injectors with some single shots as part of the upgrade. The van was to the point where it would not start when cold even during warm 70+ degree weather.

​​​​I have been burning some oil. Especially on mountain passes and grades. For example I would be down approximately a half quart with a 3000 elevation gain over 100 miles. I was thinking that some of that hardened crud could be from oil passing the injector rings over the years but my fuel bowl and filter have been very clean since I have owned the van. However I do remember pulling the fuel filter out when I first bought the van and it was black.

I have noticed that my oil temp stays around 213 degrees as well. After searching the web and reading forums this temp seems to be above average. Does any of this information help shine some light on a cause? There are no previous service records, I have only owned the vehicle since August 2017, and I have put about 3000 miles on it since the purchase.
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Old 01-02-2018, 03:19 AM
714shane 714shane is offline
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Thank you for the insight Carguy3j. I am replacing the injectors with some single shots as part of the upgrade. The van was to the point where it would not start when cold even during warm 70+ degree weather.

​​​​I have been burning some oil. Especially on mountain passes and grades. For example I would be down approximately a half quart with a 3000 elevation gain over 100 miles. I was thinking that some of that hardened crud could be from oil passing the injector rings over the years but my fuel bowl and filter have been very clean since I have owned the van. However I do remember pulling the fuel filter out when I first bought the van and it was black.

I have noticed that my oil temp stays around 213 degrees as well. After searching the web and reading forums this temp seems to be above average. Does any of this information help shine some light on a cause? There are no previous service records, I have only owned the vehicle since August 2017, and I have put about 3000 miles on it since the purchase.
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Old 01-02-2018, 04:02 AM
714shane 714shane is offline
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Thank you for the insight Carguy3j. I am replacing the injectors with some single shots as part of the upgrade. The van was to the point where it would not start when cold even during warm 70+ degree weather.

​​​​I have been burning some oil. Especially on mountain passes and grades. For example I would be down approximately a half quart with a 3000 elevation gain over 100 miles. I was thinking that some of that hardened crud could be from oil passing the injector rings over the years but my fuel bowl and filter have been very clean since I have owned the van. However I do remember pulling the fuel filter out when I first bought the van and it was black.

I have noticed that my oil temp stays around 213 degrees as well. After searching the web and reading forums this temp seems to be above average. Does any of this information help shine some light on a cause? There are no previous service records, I have only owned the vehicle since August 2017, and I have put about 3000 miles on it since the purchase.
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Old 01-02-2018, 06:48 AM
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I don't know if I'd go so far as to say remove truck from fuel system and rebuild everything, but that fuel situation is a mess. Biofuel? Bad additives? Cheap fuel filter? Worst fuel in town?

This is the trinity of truth with diesels: Clean oil, clean air, clean fuel - and plenty of 'em. The truck will run without those rules, but not for long.
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:34 AM
Walleye Hunter Walleye Hunter is online now
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I do not know what is normal for oil temps but your van does not have an aftercooler and I wonder if that that could be the cause of slightly higher oil temps.
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Old 01-02-2018, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 714shane View Post
...I have noticed that my oil temp stays around 213 degrees as well....
The last time I saw that, my friend had a bad fan clutch, and I've seen bad formulas in Torque Pro deliver the wrong temperature reading. How is this reading of 213 degrees EOT attained? Is it confirmed with a thermometer gun?
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Old 01-02-2018, 11:59 AM
carguy3j carguy3j is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 714shane View Post
Thank you for the insight Carguy3j. I am replacing the injectors with some single shots as part of the upgrade. The van was to the point where it would not start when cold even during warm 70+ degree weather.

​​​​I have been burning some oil. Especially on mountain passes and grades. For example I would be down approximately a half quart with a 3000 elevation gain over 100 miles. I was thinking that some of that hardened crud could be from oil passing the injector rings over the years but my fuel bowl and filter have been very clean since I have owned the van. However I do remember pulling the fuel filter out when I first bought the van and it was black.

I have noticed that my oil temp stays around 213 degrees as well. After searching the web and reading forums this temp seems to be above average. Does any of this information help shine some light on a cause? There are no previous service records, I have only owned the vehicle since August 2017, and I have put about 3000 miles on it since the purchase.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walleye Hunter View Post
I do not know what is normal for oil temps but your van does not have an aftercooler and I wonder if that that could be the cause of slightly higher oil temps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tugly View Post
The last time I saw that my friend had a bad fan clutch, and I've seen bad formulas in Torque Pro deliver the wrong temperature reading. How is this reading of 213 degrees EOT attained? Is it confirmed with a thermometer gun?
213 deg oil is perfectly fine, normal, and even desirable. Oil over 200deg will help to "boil off" water an other contaminates. Cat, Cummins, and other "big" diesel manufacturers recommend and in some cases require, oil temps in the 200-220 deg range.
International specs a 203deg t-stat for these engines. Ford messed with that and shipped them with a colder one. If you allow for a 10-20 deg delta between coolant and oil temp, that puts you at about 213 oil temps, as per OEM International specs.

This is an example of not always believing what seems to be popular wisdom on the forums. Ideally, the perfect formula for most engines is cold air, cold water, and hot oil.

I have a full grill block/ winter front on now. Up to about 35-36 deg, I leave it fully closed. Above that, up to about 46-48deg, I open the 2 flaps. Over that, I take it off. Sunday night, with ambient air temps at about 7-9deg, I could just barely maintain about 200-203deg oil temps driving, and it would dip down into the 180's-190's with prolonged idle while I was talking to someone.
Around Christmas, with temps closer to 30-40 deg, ( with the 2 flaps open) on a long highway drive, and some mixed local driving as well, I would see around 213-217deg oil temps.
At no point did my fan clutch engage. And yes, it does work. Although it does not come on often, it would activate in the summer at times. The truck has never overheated.

The other thing to keep in mind, is that timing/SOI is affected by oil temps. From what I have read, around 180deg EOT is the point where the stock tuning stops making "cold oil" adjustments. Below that, the PCM advances timing, based on oil temp. The colder it is, the more advance it adds. Now, who knows what an aftermarket tuner may have done to that table?

Now, I will say that if the OP does NOT have a grill block, then 213 deg EOT in the current winter weather would tend to indicate an issue with oil cooler. Of course, it would also indicate that if you are seeing 213 EOT in freezing weather, then its entirely likely you could be seeing excessive oil cooking (coking) temps in the summer. Pull the oil cooler and inspect the core for blockage. maybe consider replacing it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tugly View Post
I don't know if I'd go so far as to say remove truck from fuel system and rebuild everything, but that fuel situation is a mess. Biofuel? Bad additives? Cheap fuel filter? Worst fuel in town?

This is the trinity of truth with diesels: Clean oil, clean air, clean fuel - and plenty of 'em. The truck will run without those rules, but not for long.
While it may seem like "overkill", those injectors clearly have a ton of gritty crud in them. Not only did it have to come from somewhere; at least some of it likely went somewhere else. Why take the chance on instantly trashing new injectors? That's a lot of money and work to put at risk; especially given the visual evidence at hand.
Further, IF it does indeed have a metal tank that has de-laminated, then there is no question. The entire fuel system IS contaminated with sludge.
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Old 01-02-2018, 02:38 PM
714shane 714shane is offline
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Thank you all for the replies they are extremely helpful. To answer a few of the questions from above... I live in Southern California with warm Temps. I don't have a grill block, I was getting the reading the Temps off the torque pro app, and the van is stock as far as engine mods.

I had suspected possible oil cooler issues based on research in forums. The van was converted to 4x4 using a 2007 F250 donor truck, so I don't know if the gas tank is original or if it was swapped out. Currently it's a plastic tank
​​​​​​
Does anyone have suggestions on how to clean out the fuel system while the injectors are out? I need to order some injectors today. I was planning on the swamps 160/80 remans, but now I'm thinking I should save a bit of money and get them from Rosewood incase I end up wrecking the injectors. It's about a $600 difference for the same "type" of injector build.
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Old 01-02-2018, 03:49 PM
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I would recommend talking to a couple of knowledgeable people before spending money on bigger injectors. Vans have no aftercooler and any mods that you do can easily push you into a critical heat zone.
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Old 01-02-2018, 04:25 PM
714shane 714shane is offline
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Yes that is excellent advice. I'm not looking to go wild with power but I am looking for at least 350hp for now. There are some future mods that I can make so I would like to leave some power on the table with the bigger injectors. After talking to some people here on FTE it sounds like the 160/80 can be easily detuned to perform like a 160/0.

​​​​​​Are you currently running an IC on your 99?
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Old 01-02-2018, 04:51 PM
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Yes, all '99 and up F model Super Duties have intercoolers.
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Old 01-02-2018, 10:29 PM
714shane 714shane is offline
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Quote:
You need to meticulously flush out the entire fuel system, including the rails in the head and all the lines.
Carguy3j, do you have any suggestions on how to flush out the fuel system?

​​​I ran quite a bit of fuel system cleaner through it over the last 4 months such as 2 full treatments of Diesel Extreme from Hot Shots, 64oz of Striction Eliminator oil treatment from Hot Shots, Every Day Diesel fuel treatment used with every fill up from Hot Shots, and finally a bottle of Diesel Fuel Therapy Diesel Injector Cleaner from CRC. Hopefully that pushed out some of the gunk.
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