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HOS experts weigh in please

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Old 12-06-2017, 11:54 AM
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HOS experts weigh in please

I am pulling RVs for one of the companies in Goshen, IN and can't seem to get a clear answer concerning Hours of Service - or maybe I am just too dense to understand what they are saying.
My confusion centers around Off Duty and On Duty/Not Driving. I'll try to lay this out as clearly and completely as I can.


I am paid by the loaded mile. When I sign up to pull a camper to a dealer/destination, I am under load and have no problems. However, once I deliver that camper to the dealership it gets confusing for me. By definition, since I am no longer loaded and no longer getting paid, nothing I do from this point on has anything to do with work. Therefor I must be Off Duty. I certainly can't be Driving since I have no load or destination, and I'm not On Duty/Not Driving since I'm not doing work related stuff and getting paid.
If I drove 11 hours to the dealership, and I am now off duty, am I obligated to spend that off duty time sitting in one spot for 10 hours or can I go ahead and drive home? Could I drive back to Indiana and pick up another load as long as I was off duty for 10 hours, even though I spent that 10 hours driving back to Indiana (unloaded/unpaid)?
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Old 12-06-2017, 04:38 PM
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Interesting.

I remember a story of a Walmart driver that killed that comedian:

Found the link:
Walmart Trucker Who Hit Tracy Morgan Was Awake for 28 Hours, Driving for 14

Roper had driven 800 miles, from Georgia to Delaware, before he even started the shift.



Before starting your next load you need to show 10 hrs of rest in your logbook. If something bad happened, like above, you would have to show that you were driving for 6-8 hours to get home. I think that would be the problem.
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Old 12-06-2017, 11:01 PM
18F350P 18F350P is offline
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Whenever you start your day , you must show 10 hours sleeper / off duty - then you may drive 10 hours of a 14 hour work day . Your work day must show time for pre trip / post trip inspection , 30 minute break , fuel , shipper and receiver time . Once you reach 10 hours driving or 14 hours total , you are required show 10 hours sleeper / off duty .
DOT / STATE OFFICERS will go back thru your logs looking at dates , times , mileage , and your current location .
When it does not match up - you are done . Driver is grounded and fined - Company is flagged for CSA / Safety Violations . Driver is terminated with bad scores to prevent company from taking a hit .

We all know drivers that push the limits - I rarely get stopped or called in - I request a courtesy inspection and make sure my annual level stickers are easy to see . Also keep fuel receipts for 30 days to prove date times .
Run Hard - Be Safe
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Old 12-07-2017, 06:59 AM
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I can understand the confusion. But consider this:
You deliver a trailer in Knoxville. You are now off duty, and free to do whatever you want. You drive back to Elkhart and pick up another trailer, putting you back on duty. But consider the locations - an enforcement officer could successfully argue that the time between Knoxville and Elkhart was on duty since you are enroute to pick up your next load. And he would question the fact that you went off duty in Knoxville and came back on duty in Elkhart.
As far as driving home, I think if you have the company signs on the truck, you are driving for the company and must log the time.
My experience in a big rig - deliver in Los Angeles and drive home to San Diego for time off - I had to log the trip from L.A. to San Diego because a scale house inspection in San Clemente would have found me in violation if I hadn't logged the miles.
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Old 12-07-2017, 07:48 AM
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Can think of several commercial aviation incidents over the last 20 years where the wrecks were tagged as pilot error with commentary about lack of rest prior to the flight. So even though the pilot was within the limits of flight duty time, the NTSB dug through their life's activities and found that he (am not aware of any females) pushed the body too far. In some cases, the pilot had just come off of a day-job and IIRC one was an EMT.

So not matter what the Reg's call for, you sure you want to be 'that guy'? Just ask-in . . .
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:04 AM
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I'm not from your area, but a lot of regulations can be better understood by thinking a little unreasonably.

Say you drive ten hours, unload in five minutes, sleep for ten hours and drive home. If you did ten trips back to back, you'd be fine.
Now day you drove ten hours, unloaded in five minutes, didn't rest and drove straight back to the starting location. If you did ten trips back to back you would NOT be fine.

Looking at it this way, I'd say you must plan for rest after your ten hours driving before you drive home.
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:31 AM
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Thanks to all for your insight.
As usual, I really didn't make very clear what my intent was. Just to be clear, I am not looking for a way to beat the system. I understand these rules, just like Navy rules, are written in blood. The intent, above all else, it to avoid tired/drowsy/inattentive drivers behind the wheel.
Along with that I want to ensure that my logs are correct and make sense while maximizing my available driving time. For example - knowing that in order to maximize driving time it's better to take a 30 minute break after 6 hours but before 8 hours is important. Take your 30 too early and you'll have to take another 30 minutes later in the day and lose that time.
I've learned that in Canada, after you drop a load and are off duty, you are limited to driving in a 45 mile radius from where you dropped. There is no such limitation in the US. Technically, off duty does mean the driver is free to drive anywhere he/she wants. The reality is, of course, a bit different and I would never try to argue the technicality with an inspector.
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:35 AM
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wrvond the answer is your a commercial driver and need to follow the rules. I'm guessing here but you wont get proper answer from them becuase your a contractor for them. If you get stopped as already stated you will be flagged to stay where you are for the mandatory "off time" and possibly get fined.
Your logbook should have a section that explains what's required and how to properly fill it out and what's mandorty for off time and don't forget the break time during your on duty time.
https://www.thetruckersreport.com/ho...r-log-book/://

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulation...urs+of+Service
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Old 12-07-2017, 02:18 PM
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Couple questions because I don't know.

wrvond drives his truck for work hauling all over all week. Sunday him and the wife and kids hop in the truck early in the morning to get the family reunion a few hours away. 14 hours later can he drive his family home in the pickup? or do hours apply? When is he commercial when is he not?

Semi driver drives otr all week. Gets back to home terminal just before he runs out of time. Can he drive his Mini Cooper home? or does he need to sleep at the terminal? What about a pickup truck?
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Old 12-07-2017, 02:51 PM
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my limited and old understanding..

if in Company truck (yours or your boss's) driving it is ON THE CLOCK ( ON DUTY )...
your personal car/truck is OFF duty... but limited in hours of driving.. as its REST TIME.

unless you OWN the company, that is on the Company truck....

I find I do not want to be "That" guy when DOT starts looking at me.

I have been in the DOT spotlight... and a different time with the FCC.... so..
walked away both times.. Clean... but still .. not much fun.

commercial license.. not the newer "CDL"
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Old 12-07-2017, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrvond View Post
For example - knowing that in order to maximize driving time it's better to take a 30 minute break after 6 hours but before 8 hours is important. Take your 30 too early and you'll have to take another 30 minutes later in the day and lose that time.
You will find that currently you will HAVE to take a break after 4 hrs, period. You can't take them when you feel the need anymore. That is what the OTR drivers are fighting about right now. Same kind of scenario, as since their schedule is not written in stone, the mandated break time will mess up most guys work schedule and leave them out of hours at the wrong time.

Fleet guys, that run dedicated runs, not so much. The O/O guys aren't happy.
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Old 12-07-2017, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon_oma#692 View Post
Couple questions because I don't know.

wrvond drives his truck for work hauling all over all week. Sunday him and the wife and kids hop in the truck early in the morning to get the family reunion a few hours away. 14 hours later can he drive his family home in the pickup? or do hours apply? When is he commercial when is he not?
good question especially if it's your only vehicle and tagged / licenced as a commercial vehicle. Looks funny in the log book when being off duty and racking up hundreds of miles?

Semi driver drives otr all week. Gets back to home terminal just before he runs out of time. Can he drive his Mini Cooper home? or does he need to sleep at the terminal? What about a pickup truck?
Sure he can, he parks the work vehicle and get in his personal vehicle. His logbook shows off duty for work.
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Old 12-09-2017, 10:18 PM
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You can even drive your work truck when off duty as a "personal conveyance" but if you drive back to your start point for instance you need to have enough off duty time after arriving to log the correct amount of off duty/ sleeper time or you will be in violation. In other words if your end of duty location was 10 hours drive away and you showed up to log back in to on duty you need to have logged enough time off duty plus transport time to the new start point to not be in violation.
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:02 AM
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Once you delivered the trailer, you are not free from dispatch. You need to return to pick up your next load. Your hours count to even if you’re empty.

Personal conveyance is for short distances, free from dispatch, like driving from home to terminal and being unladen.

Empty miles count towards your 14 hour, 11 hour and 70 hour rule.
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