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P02D5 - Cylinder 5 Fuel Injector

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P02D5 - Cylinder 5 Fuel Injector

  #1  
Old 12-01-2017, 04:15 PM
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P02D5 - Cylinder 5 Fuel Injector

Hello everyone,

Any knowledge on what's involved with replacing the #5 injector? I'm assuming it's failing and needs to be replaced and not a simple reprogramming, that is. The dealer will do the work, I simply want to know what I'm getting into before I talk to them.

P02D5 - Cylinder 5 Fuel Injector Offset Learning at Maximum Limit

The truck threw a CEL a week ago after louder than normal engine noise for a few days. I'm sure the code had already been thrown but didn't check. I decided to clear the CEL/code to see what happens. If it's bad enough it'll throw it again. I noticed the code two days ago but without a CEL. The engine was much louder under light throttle this morning and after about 12 miles the CEL is back with engine derate. I kind of like the sound of a loud 6.7L but of course it's not normal. It isn't running rough and idles fine.


The other code I have is a NOx sensor but I'm guessing that's related to the injector issue. The last two active regenerations have been a smoky experience for the drivers behind me but these last two regens have been further apart than normal. I'm also overdue for one and the soot gpl is only at 2.10 today. The next one will be because of mileage and not filter restriction.

U059E - Invalid Data Received from NOx Sensor A
 
  #2  
Old 12-01-2017, 06:32 PM
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To change the injector it is pretty straight forward. The dealer will have to program the truck with the new injector id. They will know bout that. A couple hours work at most.


Motor is covered under 5 years/100k miles BTW. I take it you are over that.
 
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Old 12-01-2017, 10:43 PM
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It is. Engine is 7.5 years old. It's also possible something else is causing the injector to work up to its capabilities but of the things I can think of that can go wrong in there, I think an injector issue is the more reasonable one. It's obvious the PCM is communicating with it and it's not an open circuit.
 
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Old 12-02-2017, 05:57 AM
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I would have them run a test on all the injectors to check for sure but it seems like that is the issue.
 
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Old 12-04-2017, 08:48 PM
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Good idea, I'll ask them to check all. Called Friday, dealer can't schedule the truck for troubleshooting until Dec 12. Truck is down 2 MPG empty at interstate speeds so it is burning through fuel. Not towing and taking it easy until repairs.

I do find this attachment a bit interesting, considering it's been in the upper 60's and there shouldn't be salt. I flipped the primary coolant cap upside down at 1,400 RPM high idle and the cap remains. Coolant is low but appears orange. Oil level is perfect at half, which is where I put it 3,000 miles ago with the old oil testing good. Sure looks like salt... but my first thought this morning was coolant even though I don't see any obvious signs in the engine bay.


 
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Old 12-05-2017, 05:19 AM
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with the truck running, smell the exhaust. Probably need to do it after a run. If it smells sweet then It maybe coolant.
 
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Old 12-05-2017, 05:01 PM
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The exhaust and the coolant separately smell normal to me at operating temperature and high idle. However, I’ve never smelled exhaust from a vehicle with, for example, a head gasket issue. Is there a scenario where coolant can enter the exhaust and not contaminate the primary coolant reservoir with oil or have coolant in the oil? The level in the second coolant system is OK as well if I were to consider an EGR cooler leak. I’m also assuming a head gasket issue causes additional pressure in the coolant system but maybe my upside down cap test is not helpful.
 
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Old 12-06-2017, 08:35 PM
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You need to go buy or rent a combustion tester and stick it in the primary and pump the bulb on top and see if the blue fluid turns yellow. Turning yellow means combustion gases in the coolant reservoir. Head gasket issues in 6.7's are rare. More likely an injector or egr cooler issue.
You could also get a bluetooth obd2 reader for like $10 and download the Forescan App and check your fuel injector balance rates.
 
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:39 PM
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The NOX sensor code interests me more. Is the signal invalid because it's too high due to poor cylinder 5 combustion? Or because it's not sending one? If it's not sending, then you could have two issues. But the white staining is probably DEF. Truck is trying to bring that NOX signal into range.
 
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:16 AM
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I looked things over again Tuesday evening and I'm much more convinced it's not coolant and not a head gasket issue but I still couldn't explain it. Too much DEF injection is a great thought and it looks identical to a misting of dried DEF. I dismissed DEF fairly quickly because I was convinced it had to be from the front of the truck. I think you're correct, the SCR system either has it's own issue (around the same time) or it's over compensating for the injector issue. I noticed the white in the exhaust tips easily so I know it's a recent occurrence.

Both codes occurred within the same week but the two smoky active regenerations occurred the morning of and one week prior so the injector was beginning to fail slowly at least before the PCM decided to alert.

The one detail I don't have a way to monitor is the temp of #5 cylinder, especially since it's involved in regen. Even though that's during the exhaust stroke, I've always assumed the temps are at least slightly elevated on those four cylinders.
 
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Old 12-12-2017, 10:24 AM
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How'd the troubleshooting go, or has that not happened yet?

Your 2011 truck will utilize the dual-channel EGR cooler...gases direct from the exhaust will first be cooled by the primary cooling system and then subsequently by the secondary cooling system. Ford did away with the dual channels by at least 2015, maybe earlier.

If there was a leak here, it would be possible for coolant to be burned without contaminating anything. But I do believe the white you are seeing is DEF overcompensation.

If regenerations are further apart than normal, it could be because that failing injector is sticking open, causing fuel to flow into the exhaust and essentially provide an active regeneration "all the time" albeit with less fuel than usual. Lower fuel economy would be consistent with that theory.

I believe DEF injection is turned off during a planned active regeneration since injecting a liquid into the hot exhaust stream would cool it, which is detrimental to how a regen works. But since your truck doesn't "know" it might be doing a regen all the time, it is using a lot of DEF to try to compensate. If the values are out of range, the computer may make the assumption the NOX sensor is bad. It could be a separate issue, but I'd start with replacing the injector and then seeing if the NOX code returns. Even if it does, you can buy the NOX sensor and replace it yourself.

FORScan is a very valuable asset...not sure if you use it or not...but just the code reading and resetting alone is invaluable.
 
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Old 12-12-2017, 08:29 PM
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Took the truck in this morning. They called this afternoon and said #5 was performing within its normal parameters. I explained what I had experienced to the SM that called (I had left a document explaining things and codes in the seat) so he was headed back to discuss with the master tech. He said he would call back but I never heard anything. They were planning to re-calibrate the injectors and drive it.

With the extra fuel consumption and less active regenerations, I would normally fully agree but I still have a difficult time explaining it. The reason why, EGT's under 55 MPH are normal for this time of the year. I monitor EGT1 and EGT4. If the exhaust is hot enough to keep the DPF soot count as low as it is then I would expect to see EGT's increased at least to over 500F at operating temperature. Ford says 560F is where it'll begin to clean passively. EGT4 was never over 430F yesterday which is about right for local driving. The behavior of the various systems does indicate over fueling but the two sensors I'm monitoring don't. In 12 days, the soot has only increased by 0.68 gpl which is unheard of for my truck. I typically have an active regeneration every eight or nine days (after 2.55 gpl, a 1.20 gpl increase from regeneration completion).

For the exhaust tips, I do agree it's DEF. I went to the worst case option too quickly. I also have not considered DEF injection is disabled during an active regeneration. I do realize you didn't state it as fact but it makes sense. Still learning a few things about these trucks seven years later.

I have the Edge Insight CTS. It doesn't have control capabilities but it'll display codes and I can choose to reset, which I did the first time. I need to try FORScan since I see they have a beta version for Windows.

I like these discussions. Even if we don't all learn something from it, at least this adds to the information available.
 
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Old 12-19-2017, 01:23 PM
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No parts replaced. The tech could not get #5 or any of the injectors to perform out of spec. He cleared the injection learning tables, PCM firmware update (I don't know what version) and re-calibrated. He took it for a drive and worked through 1/4 of a tank of fuel without an issue with IDS connected. I've since put a tank of fuel through it as well without an issue. I mentioned to them I was fine with the work so far, no reason to throw a $400 injector at it if they can't prove it's failing. No cost and I know the tech put several hours of work into it with the drive test so that was nice. Drive it and see what happens. I need to hook up to weight to push extra fuel through the engine but it'll be mid January before I have time for projects.
 
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Old 03-01-2018, 05:52 PM
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I thought I would add notes to this topic. Made it two months and the #5 injector code has returned yesterday evening. Time for a new injector.
It hasn't been quite right. The SCR system has still been injecting too much DEF because it leaves residue inside the exhaust tips and active regenerations are a smoky experience when EGT4 is between 550F around 800F. The smoke clears up completely >850F.
It only smokes during emissions regeneration. Kind of ironic isn't it? I accidentally smoked out a county road crew Tuesday morning at 20 MPH, I know it smelled horrible because it does.

Back to the doctor! The added turbo issue that has also appeared today is going to force my hand to get it there even though I lack the time. I could only build 1-3 psi boost this evening and EGT1 temps are too high under acceleration. This has plagued my truck at random since early 2012.

P02D5 - Cylinder 5 Fuel Injector Offset Learning at Maximum Limit
P132B - Turbocharger/Supercharger Boost Control A Performance
 
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Old 03-01-2018, 08:20 PM
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They do a compression test yet? I am recall another member posting up pictures of the notorious valve cracking, sounded like an air compressor when deleted. If I remember correctly he had an injector code of some type that when replaced didn’t change anything.
 

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