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Grooving or siping 19.5 tires

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Old 10-12-2017, 01:13 PM
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Grooving or siping 19.5 tires

Thinking about grooving or siping my tires before winter. Taking all 6 off the truck to paint wheels next weekend so will do it then if I do. Coworker races dirt cars and has grooving (remove .2 inch wide strip) and siping (no rubber removal just multiple razor slits) tools I can use.

Here is a picture of my rear and spare tire. My fronts are same design as pare but better condition. Thinking about grooving out the red about 1/3 to 1/2 tread depth or siping the green (probably more slits just drew 2). Looking to improve traction for this winter and thought I would try it out. Tires are older and will likely replace in the spring before my trip to AZ and would rather try it first on the old before "new" ones.

Any thoughts?

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Old 10-12-2017, 01:29 PM
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I think that adding more sipes to the sipes already there, as indicated by the green lines will probably weaken the rubber too much and allow them to chunk and break off from the tread, especially since they are older tires and already show indications of the tread chunking.

Why do you want to add more sipes to the tire?

Stewart

Last edited by Stewart_H; 10-12-2017 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 10-12-2017, 01:46 PM
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Hoping to improve traction for the winter. The truck is my only vehicle now. Before I always had a car and truck driving the car in the winter. I ran a dedicated winter tire on a few of them and was impressed. Thinking that additional edges would help. No real problems with what I have but willing to experiment. Well except for the screw I picked up in a front this morning.
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon_oma#692 View Post
... but willing to experiment. Well except for the screw I picked up in a front this morning.
Ah! I gotcha now.

Well, except for the screw you picked up...too...

Stewart
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:13 PM
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Good news. Screw did not puncture tire just stuck in tread. No plugs
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:16 PM
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I think siping is a good idea but I don't think I would groove them.
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:31 PM
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I had some tires siped a few winters ago and it worked pretty well. Only problem for you may be that they have been on the road. I was told at the time that they would not do tires that had been driven due to gravel, sand ETC. embedded in the tire will destroy the "knives" that make the cuts.
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Old 10-12-2017, 04:45 PM
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Regarding Siping, ONLY do the CENTER 2 or 3 ROWS on the tire, this will prevent chunking of the outside lugs. You don't want to sipe the outside edges. Regarding grooving them a lot of off road guys use electric chain saws with a depth gauge on them but typically they only go off road. Siping makes a big difference, I did it to 2 sets on my Jeep when it was my DD. What about just running snow tires? This time of year there's all kinds of them on CL for cheap...just a thought. Edit: never mind just saw the 19.5.
Les Schwab will sipe them for about $15 each...
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:55 PM
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Not doing the outside rows makes sense. That was the plan on the front but didn't think to not do the outside for the rear.
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Old 10-19-2017, 07:17 PM
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When you replace your tires in the spring, consider the Michelin XDS2 for the drive axle. The treads to these 19.5" traction tires sport approximate 200 treadblocks per tire, and come pre formed from the factory with around 700 sipes per tire.

Each individual tread block in the two center rows comes with four full width sipes per block, and each of those sipes also zig zags (for some good tread engineering reason that I have since forgotten).

The two shoulder (outside) rows of tread blocks have 3 sipes per individual tread block, and those sipes are not full width, in that they zig zag across 2/3 rds of the out board tread block, stopping about a half inch short of the shouldered edge, leaving a solid unbroken tread surface on the final third of the outermost block (but instead has indentations on the side of the tread block to for traction out of ruts).

Seems like a good tread design for a 19.5. I've had mine for around 6 years now, and compared just about every other 19.5" tire made at the time before selecting the XDS2. What I was looking for was superior frozen wet and "black ice" traction, above all else. No other tire in this size had more factory cut sipes than the XDS2, by a very wide margin.
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Old 10-19-2017, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Y2KW57 View Post
When you replace your tires in the spring, consider the Michelin XDS2 for the drive axle. The treads to these 19.5" traction tires sport approximate 200 treadblocks per tire, and come pre formed from the factory with around 700 sipes per tire.

Each individual tread block in the two center rows comes with four full width sipes per block, and each of those sipes also zig zags (for some good tread engineering reason that I have since forgotten).

The two shoulder (outside) rows of tread blocks have 3 sipes per individual tread block, and those sipes are not full width, in that they zig zag across 2/3 rds of the out board tread block, stopping about a half inch short of the shouldered edge, leaving a solid unbroken tread surface on the final third of the outermost block (but instead has indentations on the side of the tread block to for traction out of ruts).

Seems like a good tread design for a 19.5. I've had mine for around 6 years now, and compared just about every other 19.5" tire made at the time before selecting the XDS2. What I was looking for was superior frozen wet and "black ice" traction, above all else. No other tire in this size had more factory cut sipes than the XDS2, by a very wide margin.
They look nice but ouch at 400 a tire. The ones I have are 150 a tire. I don't think I can justify the difference. How is the off pavement performance? Grass dirt gravel fields etc
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Old 10-19-2017, 10:23 PM
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Best tire I've ever had on the 550. Although in fairness, in 17 years, I've only purchased tires once, and when I did, I went for the best I could find, because I was coming from the worst Ford could find when they spec'd the original Continental General LMT400s.

The LMT400's were such a bad tire, they were ultimately discontinued. I had three blow outs with them. Continental subsequently released the HSR and HDR series, dropping the "General" co branding, to replace the previous disaster of a tire. Ford provided me with three HSRs due to the recall on the previous LMT400 with snap in valve stems. That hardly makes up for the cost and inconvenience of the three blow outs, but it did define what tires I use on the steer axle, until the tires date out.

I cannot seem to wear out the tread on tires, on any vehicle. My tires always date out first. Hence, tread life is never a factor in my selection, and more importantly to your concern about cost... I do not replace tires often enough to short change on the usage benefits of having the most optimally performing tire.

How is optimal performance defined? That is hard to measure or compare, as it will be different for everyone. For me, it boils down to confidence where the rubber meets the road, or the slick grass, or the squirrely gravel. I'll just say this... I've used 4WD often, but I've never locked the front hubs. So essentially, I'm only using the gear reduction capacity of the transfer case to save the transmission, as the 4 XDS2 tires on the drive axle have NEVER lost traction on any surface the truck has been driven on, towing or not towing.

My biggest concern was towing over the Sierra Nevada, as well as over the Grand Tetons out of Jackson Hole. The Donner Summit pass isn't has steep as the Teton, but it has a lot of bridges that can get slick from the cold attacking both sides of the road surface.

Cheap Chinese manufactured tires now seem to be more the norm as each year passes, but six or seven years ago, I was too suspicious of the quality to take the risk. Not that country of origin should make a difference on a product manufactured more by machine... but the quality of the materials in the compounding, and how that compound conforms and rebounds to the surface driven over, or remains stable in UV and Ozone exposure, resists chipping and chunking away... typical tire longevity issues that have nothing to do with tread wear or miles driven... that is what made me default to the "we get what we pay for" philosophy, and I wanted good materials made by a company with a strong name brand and reputation to uphold.

So I found a way to justify it. I like not worrying about the tires anymore.
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Old 10-20-2017, 08:07 AM
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Dangit Y2KW57, you just added $1600 to my wish list if/when I upgrade to Vision 81 19.5" wheels.
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Old 10-20-2017, 09:32 AM
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So how old are the tires you are running?
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Old 10-20-2017, 03:00 PM
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I siped all 4 of my Toyo RTs last year. They had around 40k miles on them in this picture and you can see I just siped the inner tread blocks. I used a heated siping/grooving tool that I bought off of Amazon. It worked great. Took me about an hour for all 4 tires (not including removal and re-mounting the tires). It seemed to help out in the snow last winter.

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