1950 239 Flathead V8 Hesitation
#106
11-05-2017, 10:26 PM
Fleet Owner
Sure could be! When I got mine it had been sitting for several years. Got it started the first day I had it, but it wouldn't rev up and died within a few seconds. After sawing off a muffler packed full of junk by mice, it ran pretty good. On the power valve issue, I know it's best to have the correct one for your altitude, but a flathead with the stock carburetor will run fairly decent at high altitude. I can remember going over Berthoud pass in CO nearly 60 years ago in the family '51 Ford Custom Sedan. A family of 5 with 3 teenage boys and loaded down with suitcases and gear for a 3 week vacation. If I remember right, that pass was about 11,000 feet. I remember we were down in 2nd gear some near the summit, but there wasn't any missing, and certainly no stream of gas running out of the tailpipe.
#107
11-06-2017, 04:04 PM
Before I get to the tricky removal of the draft tube and exhaust (they both have gas coming out of them so they aren't totally blocked...and it was running great for about 2 weeks), I think I'm going to replace the points and condenser again.
I know they are new, but I just read a post on another forum (totally different vehicle) and they guy was chasing the problem exactly as I am, and had exactly the same problem (idle fine, hesitation under load) and it turned out to be the new condenser he put in failed and points also had something wrong. So, that's an easy and cheap fix to try. I'll try and get them from a different chain this time though.
I know they are new, but I just read a post on another forum (totally different vehicle) and they guy was chasing the problem exactly as I am, and had exactly the same problem (idle fine, hesitation under load) and it turned out to be the new condenser he put in failed and points also had something wrong. So, that's an easy and cheap fix to try. I'll try and get them from a different chain this time though.
#108
11-06-2017, 05:58 PM
Where are you buying them from? Ignition parts important to buy the "good stuff". Condensors are notorious these days for being defective. Put in an old school 50s era condenser from your junkbox. Better than a lot of the stuff sold today. That said if you check spark at the coil and it will jump a 1/2" with a bright fat spark (no red or yellow) should be OK.
#111
11-06-2017, 09:35 PM
Gas in the oil is new, after breaking off distributor bolt, trying to get timing right again, trying to get it running at all, and carb issues. lol it's the never ending saga here.
I'm just thinking it all of a sudden stopped working well, so maybe something in there just quit, but I don't know. I found the post and it was like all of my issues and I thought I'd give it a try.
Tedster, condenser and points from OReillys, as is the 6volt coil. I don't have an old junkbox either.
I'm just thinking it all of a sudden stopped working well, so maybe something in there just quit, but I don't know. I found the post and it was like all of my issues and I thought I'd give it a try.
Tedster, condenser and points from OReillys, as is the 6volt coil. I don't have an old junkbox either.
#112
11-06-2017, 09:51 PM
Tuned
- Bob
#113
11-06-2017, 10:00 PM
Nope. I wouldn't trust them. Maybe they are OK but that's not the way to bet. Not trying to beat up on the Irish Auto Parts Store here - nobody sells good points/condensers anymore.
Points and condenser as a system work fine for many thousands of miles, but they have to be quality. I see points and condenser kits online that retail for 8 bucks. There's no way they are any good. Buy genuine Autolite or Ford ignition parts. NOS ignition parts don't cost that much more but they fit right, work right, and they last. NORS Echlin or Standard are good stuff, I've found. Seem to be. I've seen quality current production points available but they are almost $30 a pop. The el-cheapo condensers are almost universally defective.
EBay is your friend on stuff like this, or a longtime auto parts jobber if you have one nearby. Might be surprised what's sitting on a shelf somewhere. With all that said - I doubt this is the problem. But it will be another problem, guaranteed. If you're gonna run points and condenser buy good ones, then you can forget about 'em.
Give it time
Points and condenser as a system work fine for many thousands of miles, but they have to be quality. I see points and condenser kits online that retail for 8 bucks. There's no way they are any good. Buy genuine Autolite or Ford ignition parts. NOS ignition parts don't cost that much more but they fit right, work right, and they last. NORS Echlin or Standard are good stuff, I've found. Seem to be. I've seen quality current production points available but they are almost $30 a pop. The el-cheapo condensers are almost universally defective.
EBay is your friend on stuff like this, or a longtime auto parts jobber if you have one nearby. Might be surprised what's sitting on a shelf somewhere. With all that said - I doubt this is the problem. But it will be another problem, guaranteed. If you're gonna run points and condenser buy good ones, then you can forget about 'em.
don't have an old junkbox either.
#114
11-06-2017, 10:04 PM
I have been following this thread in interest. I never got interested in flat-heads, no disrespect intended.
Just one point, LOAD-O-MATIC was introduced in 1949. Is your engine LOM equipped? It seems to me the shot of the open distributor shows LOM but is there a Spark Control Valve on the present carb (it looks like a power valve but is mounted on the exterior of the carb)?
Full reference will be in the appropriate service manual.
Just one point, LOAD-O-MATIC was introduced in 1949. Is your engine LOM equipped? It seems to me the shot of the open distributor shows LOM but is there a Spark Control Valve on the present carb (it looks like a power valve but is mounted on the exterior of the carb)?
Full reference will be in the appropriate service manual.
#115
11-06-2017, 10:09 PM
Bob, so you're saying it shouldn't be this hard... that's good to know. I know nothing about older vehicles (pre-1988 or so) but I'm learning and appreciate the help.
Definitely have all the parts on the carb and the oil bath is lower than the fill mark. Runs about the same with or without the oil bath on, but I don't want to do that in case of a backfire or something, my dad gave me that advice.
I have all winter to get it running again, I'm not giving up... though if I hadn't learned to drive on this truck 30 years ago I might have. At some point I may need to try and find someone that knows how to trouble shoot better than me though.
Definitely have all the parts on the carb and the oil bath is lower than the fill mark. Runs about the same with or without the oil bath on, but I don't want to do that in case of a backfire or something, my dad gave me that advice.
I have all winter to get it running again, I'm not giving up... though if I hadn't learned to drive on this truck 30 years ago I might have. At some point I may need to try and find someone that knows how to trouble shoot better than me though.
#116
11-06-2017, 10:19 PM
I'll have to google LOM. But i do not have the "power valve looking thing", or "spark control valve" on my carb. I didn't know what that was actually until you just mentioned it. I've seen some carbs with it, but both the Holley 94 7RT on my vehicle and off ebay didn't have the place for that on the lower throttle body.
#117
11-06-2017, 10:34 PM
In case you want some familiar reading... This is the thread. He was trying all the things I am and it was the points and condenser. Only happens when it's hot. Mine, I'm not sure as I kept letting it get hot before driving it, yet another test I will need to do. However, I do recall when it first started I'd take off fine for a bit, and then after a few minutes of driving the hesitating would start. This happened a few times, so it might be similar.
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/hes....833855/page-5
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/hes....833855/page-5
#118
11-07-2017, 08:59 AM
If you have any trouble finding a good description, let me know.
Basically, the advance feature (there is no mechanical advance) is controlled off the carb by it's combining/varying amounts of manifold and ported vacuum signal to the dist diaphram.
In case you want some familiar reading... This is the thread. He was trying all the things I am and it was the points and condenser. Only happens when it's hot. Mine, I'm not sure as I kept letting it get hot before driving it, yet another test I will need to do. However, I do recall when it first started I'd take off fine for a bit, and then after a few minutes of driving the hesitating would start. This happened a few times, so it might be similar.
Depending on parts quality today and considering how they actually work, the condenser may be at fault with heat. You can disconnect the condenser and test drive, The condenser only acts as an absorber for excess voltage so as not to pit/burn the points set. Engine heat must be causing malfunction
IMO, you should consider upgrading the dist with PERTRONIX II. But you might want to wait until you know you have the correct carb/dist combination.
I never got interested iN much anything before the Y-BLOCK but the IGN SYS is basically the same.
Do you have a year correct
service manual for the truck?
TEXT SOURCE- Flathead Tuneup Specifications for 1949-53 V8 (239 & 255)
But i do not have the "power valve looking thing", or "spark control valve" on my carb. I didn't know what that was actually until you just mentioned it.
I've seen some carbs with it, but both the Holley 94 7RT on my vehicle and off ebay didn't have the place for that on the lower throttle body.
I've seen some carbs with it, but both the Holley 94 7RT on my vehicle and off ebay didn't have the place for that on the lower throttle body.
In case you want some familiar reading... This is the thread. He was trying all the things I am and it was the points and condenser. Only happens when it's hot. Mine, I'm not sure as I kept letting it get hot before driving it, yet another test I will need to do. However, I do recall when it first started I'd take off fine for a bit, and then after a few minutes of driving the hesitating would start. This happened a few times, so it might be similar.
IMO, you should consider upgrading the dist with PERTRONIX II. But you might want to wait until you know you have the correct carb/dist combination.
I never got interested iN much anything before the Y-BLOCK but the IGN SYS is basically the same.
Do you have a year correct
service manual for the truck?
Spark advance in the LoadaMatic distributor is controlled entirely by the vacuum differential at the carburetor, which regulates the vacuum control diaphragm on the distributor. The diaphragm is connected to the breaker plate and works against two springs. On 1949 Ford distributors the two springs are of separate tension. 1950 to 53 distributors have identical springs. The springs are mounted on posts with eccentric mounts. Turning the post adjusts the spring tension. Vacuum for the LoadaMatic distributor does not come from a simple vacuum fitting off the intake manifold (ie for windshield wipers), but must come from the vacuum connection on the carburetor. The stock Ford/Holley carb has the necessary two vacuum circuits internally, that are absolutely necessary for control of this distributor. In general, earlier Stromberg carbs will not have these vacuum circuits that would allow them to be used on the 49-53 distributor. Likewise, when using multiple carburetor manifolds, there will not be sufficient air velocity in either carb to operate the vacuum advance of this distributor correctly.
When setting breaker point gap be sure to check ignition timing after making the adjustment. There is an oiler on the stock distributor body to provide lubrication for the distributor drive shaft. Also, a light film of breaker point grease should be applied to the eight-sided cam (or rubbing block) when the points are serviced.
The condenser is rated at 0.21 to 0.25 microfarads. This can be checked properly with a meter designed to read condensers and capacitors. A simple ohmmeter can test for complete failure, but will not give an accurate reading for specified ratings.
When setting breaker point gap be sure to check ignition timing after making the adjustment. There is an oiler on the stock distributor body to provide lubrication for the distributor drive shaft. Also, a light film of breaker point grease should be applied to the eight-sided cam (or rubbing block) when the points are serviced.
The condenser is rated at 0.21 to 0.25 microfarads. This can be checked properly with a meter designed to read condensers and capacitors. A simple ohmmeter can test for complete failure, but will not give an accurate reading for specified ratings.
#119
11-07-2017, 09:17 AM
"The condenser is rated at 0.21 to 0.25 microfarads. This can be checked properly with a meter designed to read condensers and capacitors. A simple ohmmeter can test for complete failure, but will not give an accurate reading for specified ratings."
This is important because most folks don't have a way to properly test a condenser. They break down under high heat, as well. I think they are rated and therefore tested at 600 volts DC or better, the DVOM or "cap checker" can't do that either.
This is important because most folks don't have a way to properly test a condenser. They break down under high heat, as well. I think they are rated and therefore tested at 600 volts DC or better, the DVOM or "cap checker" can't do that either.
#120
11-07-2017, 10:18 AM
Fleet Owner
