I ordered Ford brake pads from Amazon and the box had only 3 brake pads! Do we still teach basic math in our schools?
The Raybesto flexible brake caliper hose was in a Dorman box. Both are being sent back to Amazon. I found FORD NOS (new old stock) brake pads and brake hose on eBay. Good price for each item.

 

When you get the pads could you take a picture of the edge code? I believe those will be from PMI. We didn't supply the E Van OE.

And maybe start another thread ..... or PM me.

 

Are we allowed to talk back brake pads here?
Jack remember when I did my backs last and you asked about date code or something? I found info printed on the back of the pad in one of my saved pics.
These are the BRSD-1334 for 2005+ DRW application. If you zoom in the info is on the back of the pad. Is that what you were looking for?

 

I did notice the BRSD-1333 are listed under Rock Auto as fitting a SRW application for our trucks...just not sure how they differ from the 1069.

 

So Ford and Federal-Mogul are changing some things and changing the designations as I have known. Which is partially why I've not been able to follow this lately.

Maybe I should finally talk about my history.

At the start of my 30-year career in the automotive brake industry, my company was called Abex. Prior it used to be called American Brake Shoe Company and the only time the public saw that name was when buying friction material from NAPA as American Brakeblok until the 1980s. Abex sold products under Abex in the commercial truck and railroad industry and with OE assembly line brake friction material you still saw ABEX, like all the friction material ever sold on the Ranger. The '99 production Superduty pads showed ABEX. Aftermarket pads and shoes were sold to other companies under private labels, just about all of EIS products were from Abex.

Abex Railroad Products screwed up on a new railroad wheel plant during a recession, the production method didn't upgrade from an R&D size, and the company was bought by a holding company that broke up the divisions in the mid-80s. PheumoAbex was the new name consisting of only friction materials and aircraft hydraulics. The friction side did quite well and the company was split again, this time the friction group was sold to Cooper Automotive, which earlier bought Moog Automotive, consisting of Anco, Belden Automotive Wire and Cable, Champion Spark Plug, Champion Aviation, and of course Moog. A few years later Cooper Automotive bought Wagner Brake and Electric. Wagner was a company that was not keeping up with the times since the 1950s, so it got rolled up into Abex and Wagner's plants slowly closed down. Some of Wagner's formulations were still retained.

Then Federal-Mogul bought the entire Moog Automotive group. F-M previously bought Ferodo as it wanted its engine component divisions in Europe. Ferodo had a failing friction material business in the USA, they were down to supplying only the rear brakes on one low volume Chrysler vehicle. F-M ignored the friction side because it had such a small presence, a fatal mistake. Unlike Abex and Wagner, Ferodo never addressed its asbestos liabilities, which in the end brought F-M to bankruptcy from the European liabilities. Carl Ichan bought the majority stake to reorganize and decided to make Ferodo the friction material management. The management that lost 90% of it's original USA sales. As part of the plan to sell off individual groups as with all holding companies, you do everything to make short term profit and don't worry about the future. Plants were sold, some moved offshore, and many R&D groups lost assets. Both of the vehicle testing sites I oversaw, NJ and Los Angeles, were shuttered. We don't need no stinkin vehicle testing. We were doing testing for the friction group, some Moog work, and some National Bearing work. My group did all the vehicle testing for OE contracts and also all the vehicle testing that Motorcraft required for their over-the-counter sales, $50mil per the year 2005. Total friction material sales worldwide for Abex, Ferodo and Wagner were over $1bil. At that point, Abex was OE on many Ford and Chrysler vehicles, but also some Honda and Toyota in the USA. Federal-Mogul in its entirety was recently sold by Icahn to Tenneco. We'll see how that goes.

So for the first 5 years, I worked as a developer and compounder, the guy who comes up with the formulations and the procedure to process it, basically the chef who comes up with the ingredients and the baking procedure for the cake and cookies.


Here are good examples of up to 2008 of how parts were identified, OE pads from the Superduty. Per the AMECA coding, FM (Federal-Mogul the supplier) 2160 the commercially designated friction material name. Internally to the company, it’s got a different formulation name.







And a different number and formulation for the aftermarket Motorcraft pads tested on a 2006 F-350. And that’s how it was when the company and I parted.




Ford OE engineers in Dearborn and the Motorcraft guys in Allen Park wanted to keep it this way, as it always was. OE assembly line parts got the normal Ford part number designation and were in a brown cardboard box, the label coded blue and no mention of Motorcraft anywhere. Here is a set of pads from that time period that I still have, not Superduty related. 2002 production date.







Fast forward to today and labeling has all changed. With Pete’s example for his pads, both an OE and aftermarket designation is there.





The close up of the pads (where many “Edge Codes” are typically applied today) shows the material designation of BRSD2004FE. The original equipment designation was FM2160FE, and the formula was used on both the front and rear brakes, just like with the 1999-2004 Superduty pickups and Excursion but with a differnt formulation. Notice they are both friction rated FE.






The material as I knew it was right at the lowest point of F when cold and at the highest point of E when hot. So close that under vehicle testing we could not measure a difference cold to hot. The drum brake Chase Testing machine that the edge code tests were run on showed that, but the argument I always had was how do you test a disc brake material on a drum brake setup. It is essentially a neutral friction material and what the ABS guys really, really want as well as the engineers who design the braking balance of the vehicle. Design the balance in, don’t have to adjust for the balance by the front to rear brake temperature as that balance changes depending on operational inputs.


All friction materials used on a vehicle or sold for a vehicle in the USA have to have an edge code unless they are “track only”. You have an independent lab run the Chase Test, you submit an application to AMECA along with a fee to be assigned an edge code, for a period of time. You don’t renew, the edge code is dropped from publication, no new materials are to be sold wholesale. The usual practice is for AMECA to never use that designation again. Some companies keep renewing an edge code even when they are no longer in production. It fills the pages. Abex/Federal-Mogul did not. We don’t need no stinkin pages.






Federal-Mogul still uses a lot of “Abex” formulations, even though now they are “manufactured under the F-M umbrella. From page 1 of the document “Abex” designated materials cover about 4 1/3 pages, and there are a few other designation throughout. On page 398 you can still see some of the Wagner developed formulas still in production.









Using the far right designation if we look for the OE 2005+ Superduty edge code FM2160FE it’s no longer there. AMECA’s publication is not always perfect, it shows Hitachi in there and that’s not correct. Maybe 2160 is still viable, maybe F-M forgot to pay the bill.






If we look up BRSD (Pete's pads) we see a number of formulas, all going back to F-M. And these are codes seen on Motorcraft pads. 2004 is not there either, again maybe overlooked or didn’t pay the fee.






But Pete's pads show the same cold/hot friction rating, and that would be unusual to perfectly duplicate.


But this is new. To me, it appears Ford is taking some ownership of the designation. I’d have to look at a lot of Motorcraft boxes to tell if Bosch has made inroads into the Motorcraft product line, or if it’s just a number if you will.


Anyway, the long point I’m trying to make here is the edge code designations are changing and why after 10 years I’m not sure what formulation is used where. And the characteristics of each formula.

For those that don’t know, Brake Parts Inc (BPI) is Raybestos. No OE sales, just aftermarket. But like the Ford Motorcraft versions, they have versions in the GM and Chrysler sales lineups.



http://www.ameca.org/wp-content/uplo...ry-19-2018.pdf

 

I see that Hawk is in that flyer, now I need to look at the pads I have. I picked up the Superduty pads from them. I've had good luck with them on the cars figured I'd try them on the truck. I Know whatever pads are on there now are meh, but it could be me trying to stop an 8080lb truck (I weighed it), vs a 2200lb sports car. .

 

 

I will send post a photo. I hijacked this old thread. I can start a new thread.

Jack, by the way, thank you for giving us a brief history of what you did over all those years. It's fascinating!