9-21-17 update- Dealership called and after updating the pcm and putting her on the scanner heck they don't know... So they have a call or email into ford for help.. So I still don't know and the service person says well 90% of the time it's usually a phaser...blah blah.. I just said OK..

 

Did you tell him you're 90% sure he's wrong?

 

I didn't want to pi?? him off to bad cause he's the one who adds the bill up..
I did pick it up this morning and Ford did respond. They did reflash the PCM, I was on E so I splurged and filled her up with Exxon 91 with a can of seafoam and took her on a 30 mile cruise control run. Returned and hooked the scanner up and below are the snapshots and Fords suggestions. I do believe the reflash made a difference the shake is less but the misfire counts are still there
Admins if the files are to big I'll remove them....

 

Thats actually a very through hotline response, most of the time they cut and paste from the workshop manual. Your long fuel trims are very suspicious. I would do a backpressure test on both sides and compare the two. Ford's spec is 6PSI but IMO thats way too high I like to see less than 3psi and they both should be nearly equal.

 

I'm thinking bout pulling the intake this weekend just to verify the imrc is working and double check the vac lines, and gaskets. Do I have to drain the coolant to remove the intake? Also while I had the Bank 1-2 o2 sensor out I had exhaust volume so I may take an old o2 sensor and convert it to help me check pressure with a gauge.. I may even drop the pipe, just don't want to break the studs and be stuck.. And while the pipes down change that sensor. I found a cat system on ebay for 450 (included the pre and post cat- everything from manifold to muffler) and these on amz---- I don't want the light on or a loud truck. No emissions testing here yet..

Edit.. What or where do I need to look on the intake for leaks? I know all over but wondered if there's weak spots?
Thanks,

 

You don't need to pull the intake to verify that. Get an inspection mirror and watch the IMRC linkage as someone revs the engine. You should be able to see it move. Watch your O2 and short fuel trims while spraying carb cleaner at the intake gasket. Any leak will show up there. Also you can compare long trims at idle and 2500 RPM. A vac leak will show up as high trims at idle and normal trims at 2500 RPM.

 

Thanks,
i can manipulate the imrc control thru forscan open and close and see my trims move when the plates move. What I'm concerned about is a cracked intake somewhere I can't spray, are the plates opening and closing as they should, are the vac lines and harness on the back of the intake ok, and are the gaskets ok. I watched LTFT headed to work today and there just messed up
rpm * LTFT1 * LTFT2
543 * -3.1 * 5.5
1644 * .8 * 4.7
1447 * 3.9 * 10.9
1400 * 4.7 * 12.5
601 * -3.1 * 6.2
PCM has about 50 miles on it since reset so I know the puter is still learning

 

Clicking on the scale on @70f100longbed post #64 says I need t spread some Reputation around -- so I'm spreading it here! Diagnostically, that is the direction I would go - and my _hope_ is that @harveje finds exhaust backpressure is high on bank one.


It is interesting, Ford's diagnostics certainly confirmed your findings thus far. All four cylinders on bank 1 just racking up misfires during the current drive cycle - but below the 'catalyst damage and emission threshold rates', so NO DTC is going to be set.


I do not know if I would suspect a vacuum leak either. If so, not on Bank 1. Fuel trims on bank 1 are the wrong direction for a vacuum leak. And Bank 2 (though positive), isn't the 'misfire kid'. A vacuum leak on bank 2 would give a LEAN code on bank 2 instead of driving bank 1 the other direction. Even a 'stuck closed' IMRC should not modify oxygen 'content', but rather produce a P2004 or P2006. Exactly HOW the PCM determines that, I'm not sure.


If you decide to remove Intake: The intake manifold gaskets are hard plastic with a molded grove around the ports with a rubber gasket. On mine, the rubber (o'ring like rubber) had gotten hard and no longer pliable. But I think 'MY' leak was actually faulty plastic weld (glue) between upper half and lower half of the plastic manifold. But spraying a combustible underneath the IM from around the alternator would drive trims and O2 readings NUTS.


I think you should be able to find any (even minute) leak by blowing an unlit propane torch (I prefer this to carb cleaner) around while monitoring those signals without removing the IM. Removing the IM is a PITA (especially the vacuum booster connection on the inside of the head at cyl 8). Here is a video that shows it pretty good:

Thanks for keeping us informed, I am also curious to find the cause of this one. You deserve BUNCHES of 'Reps' for chasing this one down.

 

Thanks,
That data is from forscan, the dealership did not give me a copy of theirs. I've read where oil buildup on the flappers "could" cause issues along with issues with the vacuum hoses back there. I already have the intake and TB gaskets so heck I'll check it. i'm assuming it's all OE. While I have the IM loose I can use the scanner to open and close the flappers while I watch them. I should have ran a 6Sigma project on this and fishboned it out..
I'm hoping to not only find and fix the issue but to use as a tool for others if they have an issue.

 

Sorry if I'm being a pain, but while re-reading some stuff in this thread and racking my brain - some 'fog' lifted from this test data. I sorted it and ...


RPM _ _ LTFT1 _ _ _ LTFT2 _ _ _ Delta
543 _ _ -3.1 _ _ _ _ 5.5 _ _ _ _ _ 8.6
601 _ _ -3.1 _ _ _ _ 6.2 _ _ _ _ _ 9.3
1400_ _ 4.7 _ _ _ _ 12.5 _ _ _ _ _ 7.8
1447_ _ 3.9 _ _ _ _ 10.9 _ _ _ _ _ 7.0
1644_ _ 0.8 _ _ _ _ 4.7 _ _ _ _ _ _3.9


There are several things about this little exercise that caught my eye. Fuel trim normally bobbles around, so some variation in random asynchronous readings can be expected (such as the last entry). And I understand that the fuel trim table is a multi-dimensional table setup based on RMP, inter alia, But;


a). doesn't it seem odd that the first four lines track pretty consistent all the way up the scale? (based on them I'm inclined to believe the last one is a momentary aberration).
b.) Wouldn't RPM compound the effect of an exhaust restriction, causing the delta to increase / or decrease, whichever way a restriction would actually effect O2 sensing.
c). This appears that bank 1 "breathes" a certain percentage better than bank 2, without regard to the RPM - or cam retard if this test involved driving or light cruising where cam retard would get involved ( > 800 RPM & > 24% load).
d.) It appears (Whatever the cause), the effect to fuel trims is almost constant. ???


I'd like to see another set of test results from this test.


It doesn't mean I have an answer, but perhaps my musing can shed more light on the problem. If there is any thing to it, the only thing comes to mind that could possibly explain it would be a difference in lift or duration, toe or heal grind on that single new cam on bank 1.

 

There is a new cam in Bank 1 and suppose to be for a 2004 (since there different) and I compared the machine lugs to the old one but I did not check any of the lobe specs. That would defiantly do something. But why at hot idle and not a cold or running speed? And usually even at stop signs and red light the mis count stays fairly low to 0? If that is the culprit I should be able to use the wedge to hold the chains in place while swapping,.

 

I would say 'yes', "IF" that is the culprit ... you could. I hope not. But whether it's that or excessive back pressure, I think it just takes a little run time for the fuel trim (ST + LT) to accumulate to the point where that bank gets too lean to 'reliably' ignite. (??? I guess).


It would be easier to grab some more Forscan data at different RPMs (for now).

 

Thanks,
I tried to get to that stinking bank1-1 o2 sensor again and man it's a pita. I took the trans tube bolt out and pulled the tube out and of course got a nice warm fluid bath.. but even with that I still could not get a good angle on the sensor. Then I tried removing the exhaust nut..and as it goes I tried a 15 and it must be a 14 or 9/16 . I've contemplated on changing that cam ALL day and if it was bank 2 I'd already done it.. It's weird with the efans on there sometimes I can't tell if it's running or not, then sometime I can see the motor shimmy some. I've not reset the pcm since the dealer reflashed so I may put a few miles on and like F150Torqued said take some sample to have a data plot. I can see that running 65mph semi flat road LTFT1 is 0 to +1.6 and LTFT2 is +5.5 to +7.0

 

I'd buy/beg/borrow/make a smoke machine (I made mine out of an oil can and a diesel preheater (senior moment on the correct terminology)) and blow a little smoke into the PB line and watch for any smoke back by the vacuum lines and the IMRC actuators. Heck, look for any smoke anywhere.

 

(I hope I'm not being a pain) but how would an exhaust restriction effect O2 sensing? I mean, the O2 sensor just reports the presence or absence of oxygen, not how much oxygen.

Carry on guys.