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To trade in or to repair?

 
  #1  
Old 08-24-2017, 05:51 PM
bikerman2299
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To trade in or to repair?

Afternoon!

I have a 2011 F350 6.7 181XXX miles on it. The other day it started eating coolant. About a gallon every 1k miles. I'm of two minds. Sell it/trade it in and get something newer with fewer miles. Or, repair it.

Now, I'm not in an area where there are a lot of GOOD mechanics. I have a bad feeling that if I have it repaired, the shop is going to do something else wrong on the reassembly and I'll be right back to where I was only with a lot less coin in my pocket.

However, I HATE having to buy a new-to-me truck. The whole process just annoys the crap outta me. Plus the money...these trucks cost a ton.

What would you do? I have no emotional attachment to it. Its just a truck. I've three different dealers check it out and all three are saying cracked head/head gasket or cracked block.

Thanks in advance.
 
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:28 PM
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I believe I would trade it. You might spend upwards of $10K on an engine that could be put towards new truck payments. I do not think i would sell it locally and risk a law suit that you didn't disclose a problem with the engine.

Yes, it sucks with a payment, but so does being without dependable truck as you have now.
 
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Old 08-24-2017, 07:28 PM
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Wow you ask the hard questions. One thing, you know what you currently have, know the problems. I would take it to one of the trusted mechanics for evaluation and cost to repair. Then go from there as to repair or replace, as a trade in you will take a bath and same for selling outright as some states you have to disclose major problems. Good luck
 
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Old 08-24-2017, 08:06 PM
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I've had a few mechanics I know and trust turn down the work. They don't want to remove the cab to get access to the heads to start the real diagnosis. Besides, the only real way to diagnose a head/headgasket/crack block is to get the heads off, have them magnafluxed and inspected. Well, that will mean two new headgaskets right there. Plus studs, plus all the other gaskets. A full "quality" rebuild gasket set is $1200 including new head studs. So if its JUST a gasket, $1200 for the rebuild gasket set, plus time and labor to get in and out of the truck. Which, my most trusted guy quoted me just over $3500 in labor. So, at $4700 just for A head gasket, might as well do both. Well, since we're already at $4700, might as well flush all the radiators, replace the turbo(because obviously the past 181XXX miles have been hard and most likely the turbo will be crapping out soon too) replace the EGR, and oil cooler. Now we're up to some serious money. So, I started to think, just replace the engine with a crate unit from Ford. All 100% completed, remove old, flush everything, install new engine, and away we go. But wait there is a 13K dollar catch on that one(without core). I tried shopping a replacement engine from Ford...$13,212.97. Comes in a shiny crate in a big plastic bag, not even with an ECU or key. So a tow trip to the dealer would be in order to reflash mine. UGH!! I know diesels are expensive when they break. But holy head gasket.... A twin post lift is cheaper! Then I could do all my own work. Maybe its time to shop a twin post lift, and do it myself.
 
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Old 08-24-2017, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by bikerman2299 View Post
I've three different dealers check it out and all three are saying cracked head/head gasket or cracked block.
I am a Ford dealer technician as well. One who has been turning wrenches on Fords since 2000 in the dealer world. Been Senior/Master/Diesel certified since 2007. That said, I reluctantly call B*U*L*L*S*H*I*T on cracked head/head gasket or cracked block. These 6.7L engines have been relatively bulletproof when compared to the disastrous 6.4L and 6.0L Navistar units they replaced, since their debut beginning in the 2011 model year. You say you've been to three different dealers, and all three have told you the above? What about the coolant supply tube fitting to the turbo? That's a fairly common coolant leak source, not to mention very difficult to locate, without the aid of a borescope to confirm. And where the coolant typically leaks, is down the back of the engine onto the transmission bellhousing before making its way to the ground. The way this leak appears, can very easily be mistaken for a head gasket leak, which is what I highly suspect by what you've described thus far.

http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/upload..._1_6_29214.jpg
 
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Old 08-24-2017, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by m-chan68 View Post
I am a Ford dealer technician as well. One who has been turning wrenches on Fords since 2000 in the dealer world. Been Senior/Master/Diesel certified since 2007. That said, I reluctantly call B*U*L*L*S*H*I*T on cracked head/head gasket or cracked block. These 6.7L engines have been relatively bulletproof when compared to the disastrous 6.4L and 6.0L Navistar units they replaced, since their debut beginning in the 2011 model year. You say you've been to three different dealers, and all three have told you the above? What about the coolant supply tube fitting to the turbo? That's a fairly common coolant leak source, not to mention very difficult to locate, without the aid of a borescope to confirm. And where the coolant typically leaks, is down the back of the engine onto the transmission bellhousing before making its way to the ground. The way this leak appears, can very easily be mistaken for a head gasket leak, which is what I highly suspect by what you've described thus far.

http://www.forddoctorsdts.com/upload..._1_6_29214.jpg
That's new to me. That is why I also said I don't have access to GOOD mechanics. The one gent I really trust is an old school 7.3 gent. Not really sure he knows 6.7's as well. Anyhow, if you say that the coolant supply fitting could be the fail point, I'll check it out. And if you're right, I'll send money for a beer or a gift cert for Snap-On or something.

Thanks for the advice!
 
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Old 08-24-2017, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bikerman2299 View Post
That's new to me. That is why I also said I don't have access to GOOD mechanics. The one gent I really trust is an old school 7.3 gent. Not really sure he knows 6.7's as well. Anyhow, if you say that the coolant supply fitting could be the fail point, I'll check it out. And if you're right, I'll send money for a beer or a gift cert for Snap-On or something.

Thanks for the advice!
Here's some more reading, if you're interested:

6.7L Turbo Fittings - DTS Articles - Articles - Articles - DTS

Along with some videos:


 
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Old 08-25-2017, 07:24 AM
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I would pm mchang68 and get it to him to service etc. worth the trip..save alot of $$$$$ and aggravation.
 
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Old 08-25-2017, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by capt caper View Post
I would pm mchang68 and get it to him to service etc. worth the trip..save alot of $$$$$ and aggravation.
That would be a good plan except the truck is in Cali & Mchan is in Ontario Cda

Is the truck one of the early build '11's with the potential exh valve issue? Maybe not seeing as you are 181k+ on it.

I was told by a tech that works on Ford's that you can get the heads off the 6.7 without pulling the cab. Involves dropping the motor down or something. A guy I know who owns a truck repair shop though says they pull the cabs for anything motor related as it just makes it easier (5hrs re/re I was told).
 
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Old 08-25-2017, 09:12 AM
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My take on this story is to work on getting it fixed and diagnosing the trouble 100% until I know that I have a $13,000 issue. I try to be honest with everyone that I deal with and could not trade a vehicle without disclosing the problem. Once I was absolutely convinced that my only option was to spend $13,000, then I would disclose and work with my dealer on trading the truck. That's just me, plenty of other FTE members trade trucks at the first sight of trouble and live with it just fine. With this many miles on it, my dealer would not fix it or have it on their used truck lot, it would be sent to auction, working or not.

Of course, if you're looking for an excuse to trade the truck, I love new trucks.

bruce...
 
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Old 08-25-2017, 09:24 AM
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I think there are a couple things you can check if you have head gasket leak - 1st is are you seeing your coolant bubbling (like someone blowing into a glass of water with a straw) when the engine is running? Meaning exhaust is leaking into the cooling system. Another thing is are you seeing coolant in your oil? Your oil would be a murky light brown. I would think that if you have a cracked block you would be pissing coolant, do have a visible leak? I tend to agree with m-chan68 BS that it can't be diagnosed without ripping the thing apart. I'm no expert, just find it hard to believe / what you are being told just doesn't seem to make sense.
 
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Old 08-25-2017, 10:03 AM
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My take on this story is to work on getting it fixed and diagnosing the trouble 100% until I know that I have a $13,000 issue. I try to be honest with everyone that I deal with and could not trade a vehicle without disclosing the problem. Once I was absolutely convinced that my only option was to spend $13,000, then I would disclose and work with my dealer on trading the truck. That's just me, plenty of other FTE members trade trucks at the first sight of trouble and live with it just fine. With this many miles on it, my dealer would not fix it or have it on their used truck lot, it would be sent to auction, working or not.

Of course, if you looking for an excuse to trade the truck, I love new trucks.
I would never sell it private party because of this issue. I would work with a dealer and I know the truck would just go to a wholesaler and probably end up being parted out. I don't want to be the guy to pass off my problems. I know I would loose a lot of money on the truck trading it in like this, that's why I'm trying to gather more resources than except what three different sources have told me.

I think there are a couple things you can check if you have head gasket leak - 1st is are you seeing your coolant bubbling (like someone blowing into a glass of water with a straw) when the engine is running? Meaning exhaust is leaking into the cooling system. Another thing is are you seeing coolant in your oil? Your oil would be a murky light brown. I would think that if you have a cracked block you would be pissing coolant, do have a visible leak? I tend to agree with m-chan68 BS that it can't be diagnosed without ripping the thing apart. I'm no expert, just find it hard to believe / what you are being told just doesn't seem to make sense.
I've checked for coolant in my oil, and as of yet, the oil hasn't changed color. The truck isn't "making" any new oil either. I did buy a test set, that tests for exhaust gasses in my coolant. Which did show exhaust gasses in my coolant. There are no puddles on the ground when I come out in the morning or after a long drive. Although a very strong scent of boiled coolant. I have been trying to figure this out now for going on 3 weeks now.

I love new trucks too. But I can't wrap my head around spending 50K-70K on a new truck. A collector car, or "weekend get my mind of everything else" car, sure. But not something I put 40K miles a year on for work and occasionally pull my 5'er with. I just need the truck to be dependable and not eat coolant. So, if its a $20 dollar fix as m-chan68 said it might be, looks like I'll be pulling out my bore-scope this afternoon to give it a look.

Thanks for everything and all the advice.
 
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Old 08-25-2017, 11:32 AM
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With nothing on the ground, has the egr cooler been tested and verified good also?
 
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Old 08-25-2017, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Ferguson65 View Post
With nothing on the ground, has the egr cooler been tested and verified good also?
I had one of the 3 shops test the EGR. However after reading the above, I'm inclined to think that shop doesn't really know what they're talking about. With that said, they did say the EGR is good. I'll have to figure out Autoenginuity scan tool to test the EGR, hopefully this weekend I'll get it figured out. Thanks!
 
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Old 08-25-2017, 12:18 PM
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Here's my my 2c.
I've gone through the missing coolant thing twice.
First was the turbo fitting. Would lose coolant and never did drip but could smell it.
Second was the primary water pump. This also lost coolant but I had small drips on the ground under the driver side off the lower coolant hose.
Couple other places you could check is the air-to-water intercooler and also the drivers side of the main radiator. Both are known for loss of coolant.

On Edit2, clarification - the air-to-water cooler and EGR are both on the aux (low temp) cooling circuit on a 2011. So if it's losing on the primary, wouldn't be the air-to-water. The EGR is on both primary and aux.
 

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