I would say for those that cannot wait and have to have a turbo upgrade RIGHT NOW, press on with the T4/364.5 kit.

Last month Charlie (KC Turbo business owner) told me that the KC 38R-366 would be available to the public the first part of this year.

Let us please keep this thread about the differences, benefits and opinions of the various options to us instead of "what can I buy RIGHT NOW". Charlie offered to sell me a KC 38R-366 when I spoke to him last week as he did have a couple on the shelf, but I was not ready at the time. I had not made up my mind about which way I would go, if I went any direction. I thanked him for his offer and said that I would wait until they were available publicly, maybe by then I would have made up my mind.

Again, if you are an impulse buyer, I would point you toward the T4/364.5 kit. If you like to choose your products after much research and the required amount of waiting, continue to read here in the future.

 

Well it seems to me like a big part of this puzzle is WHAT's AVAILABLE..
To speculate when they will show up is just that .. Speculation. I don't care what the owner says. If your an impulse buyer you have no choice.. I have no dog in this fight and no experience with either, but things not being available for months on end is a big part of "which one to buy"

Kyle

 

1st world problems are such a bitch sometimes...

The KC 38R-366 is available via email request. This has been proven at least twice over the past 60 days by myself and Bluemax.

Since both turbos are on the "WHAT's AVAILABLE" list, choose what works best for you and let us know what you think...

 

For me this seems like the BW is the easy winner..
I need new uppipes, I like lower EGT's and a faster spooling turbo..

Kyle

 

Reaching peak boost is great, my 38r did that, hell, over 2k rpm, my 38r made similar boost number to my SXE. The difference is in the density of the air. As I posted earlier, my SXE has a much better temp delta which means less work for the intercooler and more oxygen to the cylinders.


You do realize that your crank and rod bearings are journal bearings, right? The journal bearing on the stocker got a bad wrap due to folks making 25+psi on a turbo not designed for it. The SXEs are! Also consider that an SXE rebuild is about $100. I hear the KC is $500.

 

Originally Posted by BLUEMAX65
After reading all these post here are my thoughts. The KC38r-366 is a different turbo period. It shares the name of the original 38R that most are speaking about. When I decided to look at turbo replacements i did consider the T4/ 366sxe kit. But once you add up the most basic options that are added to the basic kit your north of 2600 period. And the sxe turbo's are 360 thrust bearing compared to a dual ball bearing turbo. No brainier there.
Plus I personally saw no advantage to going to the T4 kit except you can exchange turbo's for a cost savings.

The advantage is in the performance.

If you think so let's line them up and see who's first to the other end.
I'm in AZ your in southern cal.


My truck personalty is set up for street performance not towing that's what I wanted my truck to do. I'm sure if the KC turbo was set up to be a tow pig it would preform as well as a t4 if not better. When I gave my example of towing 5k at 1250* I was in the middle of a 13 mile 6% grade on my 85HP tune. I'm sure if I was to run the same hill on my 65HP towing tune I would be equal to what the T4 guys are seeing. Keep in mind I'm running 238/100's. So it's not a fair comparison to the others that are running 160 or 180 injectors.

I think our results are a fair comparison. I’m running 200/80s, towing 10-12k, up a 6% grade, with most likely a lot more wind resistance, lifted on 35s, in my hottest tow tune (which my stock fuel pump can’t keep up with at wot), while sustaining 38psi for a couple of miles at 1190 with more throttle left because of fuel pressure. I doubt you using more than my injectors’ capacity in your 85hp tow tune. Btw, what changes do you do to make your turbo a towing turbo?


I stated I was running my 85HP tune at the time. Next time I'll try it with my 65HP TOW tune. I was on a daily tune NOT a Tow tune. I was towing a triple axle 38' car hauler. i think I had a Good amount of wind resistance.
As for the difference between our injectors and my 85 HP tune I'm not going to guess.
What I meant about a towing turbo setup was going to smaller injectors.



As for spool up my truck at 1400 rpm starts to build boost about 7 psi on my street tune to over 44 psi within a second. It's a beast. There always a different way to build a truck and I am very happy with how mine came out. Just my opinion...

 

Your Crank and Rods turns maybe 1500 rpm max. And you want to compare a turbo that spins at 120,000 Rpm. Really...

 

I think It's funny how but hurt you T4 guys are that there is another way to get our trucks to perform. This Saturday I will have some real data about how my truck performs.

I have yet to see any proven dyno sheets from anyone in this thread. I really not trying to cut you guys down just letting everyone know that the KC38R is worth looking at..

 

Using BOLD instead of quotes makes it hard to follow as to which comments relate to which turbo setup.

I'm trying to follow the comparisons and stepping over the other stuff.

It's like a shootout. It will be very interesting to see if one performs better than the other, by how much, or if they are simply two different ways to accomplish a goal. They are both great setups from what I can tell

 

Can someone explain the spool up and the EGT's? Why would a journal bearing Turbo have lower EGT's vs the BB Turbo? And wouldn't a BB Turbo spool faster therefor making boost sooner? Seems like the SXE comes on boost sooner though (from what I've read here), although I think its splitting hairs and this point.

*BTW* This is starting to look like a "My button is bigger and has more Nukes with it" conversation, just saying'

 

I’m not saying a journal bearing is better, just that it isn’t enough of a negative to sway me.

Side note: it’s not as much about rpm as it is about surface speed. An engine built for high rpm will generally have smaller crank and rod journals to limit the velocity, whereas an engine built for lower reving, higher torque applications will have larger diameter journals.



I’m catching myself sounding like My way is the only way to go and it isn’t. I’m reminded of the joke: How do you spot an atheist and a vegan in a crowded room? Don’t worry, they’ll tell you!

No butthurt here. I’m simply responding to your statements. I have no doubt that the KC is a better performer than the Garrett 38r, but I would bet money that I could out tow you up a grade if we’re both limited to 1200* on the pyros. A typical WOT run on a dyno won’t tell that story. I suppose a loaded dyno might.

If drop in, stock appearance, ball bearings and price are anyone’s priorities, then I would definitely recommend the KC.

 

Good point for folks to factor in availability of replacement part and rebuild costs.

You are probably referencing my comments. I've run both and when I said my SXE spools faster, you are right, Im splitting hairs and while the SXE is faster, its not by much. The spool factor for either turbo is a non issue as they both light quick.

 

You should really put more thought into that statement.

Here's my hope. That Charlie gets his supplier chain figured out and that there is another viable alternative in the turbo market. But as it stands right now, it's terrible marketing.....according to his own website...out of stock. But if you call, "I got a couple on the shelf."

 

In my opinion the rebuild cost should not even be a consideration in the discussion, if it must, then it is at the bottom of the list.

I don't buy a product or part like the turbo with aspirations of rebuilding it. In addition, it would take what 100K miles before a rebuild is even thought about on either of these turbos?

I am a bit confused on the BW turbos. Is the 364.5 an SXE and journal bearing? Are there SXE turbos that are ball bearing as well? Forgive my ignorance as I only starting really learning about turbos when I bought this truck almost 4 years ago now.

What does the T4 kit add to the discussion other than a mounting surface for the BW turbo? Is the T4 plumbing and mount virtually the same thing as the pedestal and up-pipes that most have now, just a different configuration? Does the T4 plumbing flow better, what if anything is the advantage to the T4?

 

I understand and agree that it is not a good marketing approach. Although, I believe that he is looking for the best parts to build the turbo, which we all understand can be difficult at times.

I don't know what happened to his supply chain, maybe there was a death in the family, maybe there was a fire, I don't know. Clearly though there was a disruption in parts being supplied. I don't like it, but I don't fault Charlie for wanting to maintain a high standard in parts either.

The "But if you call, I got a couple on the shelf" was from me, not him. I emailed him about the rumors on this forum and told him that we were very excited to see the turbo back in stock soon. He offered to sell me one from his very small stock that he had. I don't know if these are left overs or if they are ones that he is being supplied new parts for in small quantities.

I thanked him for the offer, but had to pass due to Christmas purchase obligations. I did ask when he thought they would be made available to the public, he told me the first part of 2018. So, this is not a "who you know" issue. I simply asked for information...

I think this is a great thread, but maybe it has run its course because the tone and discussion points have taken a turn for the worse. I am still on the fence on what I will do, if anything. Frankly pulling a 12K camper up a grade at 1100 degrees with 28 PSI is where I am at right now. That is without the KC38R or the T4-364.5... So, perhaps I should shut up and enjoy what I have instead of looking for something better just because.

Thanks for the education on the turbos.