X 2... cutting the filter open with a Sawzall makes it hard to determine what metal is what... hope most of what you found was already in the engine before the rebuild...

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/conv...tion-to-gm-hei

My 351M always cranks over several times before it starts... want it to start the first time a piston goes up like my carb.'d Chevy with HEI does... usually don't even hear any cranking... hot or cold...
.

 

Agreed, Looks like copper in the first pic. But that's why I said if the colors came through true. Digital photos put stuff in that really isn't there sometimes. If you went 200K plus the run in time you would have accumulated a lot of cast iron frizz.
What FMJ said about too much zinc is true. I use Valvoline VR1 in my flat tappet engines. Just about any parts house in this end of the world has it, so I don't have to mess with ordering the stuff.
If you can get in touch with those Autoline folks they might build a distributor just for you and curve it for your engine set up.

 

Interesting discussion so far. So you're all saying the little "needles" (it's just what I'm calling them for the time being) on my oil pan drain plug are possibly copper?

Every time I wiped away the 'needles' on the plug with a rag, they turned into the grey sludge you see in the first photo (there was no solid metal... just VERY FINE stuff). IMHO, I'm not sure how you could determine that there's any copper in that mixture on the plug end. Like I mentioned, the cam break-in plus 200 kms were put on the motor. You guys saw how dirty the inside of my motor was when I yanked the heads off, so I wasn't surprised to see metal on the magnet when I pulled the drain plug for the first time.

But for sake of argument, say it was copper... now what? Pull the cam and install new bearings?

I don't think we'll ever know what happened with the inside of the oil filter as it's already in the trash and on its way to the landfill. If something is indeed wrong, it'll show up again very quickly when I change my oil again (in 500 kms).

Looks like the general consensus (GM or Ford aside) is that I need a new distributor. Vacuum advance connected at idle, I was pulling 33* BTDC. Initial was 13* BTDC. So at idle, the vacuum advance is pulling 20* BTDC.

As another side note to the above, I have messed around the with carb a slight bit to get the idle leaned out, and running more smoothly. Initial setting of the idle/air screws was MUCH too rich based on the Edelbrock manual. I also adjusted everything I could (so far) as to get the highest vacuum I could. The needle sat at exactly 15.5 inches of mercury... and was 100% still (not moving, not bouncing, nothing). I have yet to disconnect all vacuum sources to determine if there's a leak somewhere. But for the time being I was concentrating on getting the rings seated.

 

Right now, I wouldn't worry at all. (I doubt the cam bearings are toast.)

If in 500 kms you see serious debris, then worry.

Vacuum timing of 20* is very healthy, as is a steady needle.

The dial says 15.5'' but I reckon it's higher. But it doesn't matter what I think.

Get your carb and timing curve dialled in, and you're good to go. (An AFR gauge is a very useful tool.)

My apologies to Crop Duster for the HEI picture below.

No more external coil, and no more additional wires. Yeah, I know, it's cosmetic.

If you can't get your mechanical bits to work 100%, then yes, new dizzy time.

And what would this thread be without a bet with FB ? LOL

FB, I bet you $10 that Aaron does not choose an HEI dizzy.

 

My apologies to Crop Duster for the HEI picture below.

I like them on Chevy's where that ugly thing is hidden behind the air cleaner. I will say it's a whole lot easier to get to the mechanical advance on one of those.

Aaron, When you pull that distributor look at the bottom of the drive gear it should show signs of being down against the pad in the block. If it doesn't you need another distributor anyway.

 

right hand drive truck?

 

Agreed. I wasn't going to panic (like I usually do) with only 200kms on the truck. I'm hoping I don't see the same amount of metal again when I do another oil change... Never know though...

What makes you think I'm pulling more vacuum than 15.5?

I really do need to disconnect all my vacuum junk to see what the motor is truly pulling (just on its own, nothing hooked up).

Get your carb and timing curve dialled in, and you're good to go. (An AFR gauge is a very useful tool.)

If you can't get your mechanical bits to work 100%, then yes, new dizzy time.
[/QUOTE]

AFR gauge would be an awesome thing to have, but I could only tune 1/2 the truck at a time. No H pipe or X pipe. Running true dual exhaust.

I'll double check that - thanks for the suggestion.

I did notice that the pad had some wear before the rebuild, so anything beyond that might be hard to determine. Can't remember if I have a photo of the pad prior to the refreshed motor going in.


Honestly tho guys, thanks for sticking with me on my motor. All the criticisms, comments and suggestions are very-much appreciated. Tempted to get an HEI, but don't really want to deal with a new ignition box, and new thermostat housing. Plus, the HEI doesn't really seem to be easy to troubleshoot? Less wires = less ways to figure out what's going wrong?

Just not sure yet. Seems like a lot of dough to drop when a rebuild Duraspark unit is turn-key.

 

Update time. Found my issue. Bit of a "DOH!" moment.

Took the vacuum off the dizzy, plugged it at idle.
Watched the timing very carefully (IDLE) - it read 7 degrees ATDC.... checked it several times, and it was correct.
Asked a friend to rev up the motor slowly to 3500 rpm.
Watching the timing, and it topped out at 11 degrees BTDC... meaning 18 degrees of mechanical advance.
Bit of a huzzah moment as I realized my mechanical advance was working... and that I set initial timing wayyyyyyy wrong.
Brought the motor back down to idle. Loosened the dizzy clamp.
Turned the dizzy until I got 8 degrees BTDC (IDLE). Suddenly, everything was idling smoother than before.
Held onto the dizzy and asked a friend to rev up the motor to 3500 rpm again (dizzy clamp loose).
Set total timing to 34 degrees BTDC at 3500 rpm.
Tightened everything back down.
Reset idle to 800 rpm (PARK).
Checked vacuum - 16.5 inches at idle, in park.

Took it for a drive. All of my overheating and drivability issues have disappeared into thin air.

How's that for an update?
Now this truck screams off the line instead of stumbling. Single tire fires, all day. (Limited slip coming later on in my build lol)
No wonder why I had overheating issues!!!

Next up is to pull the valve covers, recheck all my torques/rods/rockers, recheck the header bolts, and give it another oil change (at 500 km).

I think I might need some HOLY ***** handles and some new seat belts to boot

 

Aaron, I don't want to cause you any distress here but if I read all that right it means you now have your initial at 16 degrees BTDC. That may cause some problems restarting the engine when it is hot. Have you noticed it dragging the starter or trying to kick back when you restart it hot? Your distributor should have more than 18 centrifugal in it. I set my Cleveland up with 26.5 @ 3000. The way to know what the maximum initial for any particular engine combination is to start with the factory setting say 8 degrees, get it to normal temp, shut it down, let it sit and cook up for a couple of minutes, then start it. If it starts easy no kick back or dragging on the starter then add 2 degrees and do all that again. Keep repeating that process until it does drag the starter or try to kick back. Once you get to that point back off 4 degrees and that is the most initial timing your engine combo will tolerate.

 

Yes, you read that correctly. 16 degrees initial timing (assuming I read the balancer correctly @ 34 BTDC for total timing).

I didn't get any kick-back after taking it for a nice long drive with the girlfriend. I drove it like I stole it, got the motor nice and warm to see if it would overheat again but it didn't. We drove about 50 kms (30 miles) with a heavy foot, stopped for gas, and it fired right back up like it was cooled down. Did the same thing on the way home when we stopped to pick up some brewskies at the liquor store. Came back out, temp gauge was between R and M in NORMAL, and it fired right up.

I'll keep an eye on the hard hot starts. Just because it didn't do it during our first 50 kms on different timing doesn't mean it won't do it in the future. Thanks for the advice!

 

@ KubotaOrange76

Yes, it's a RHD.

@ Aaron

LOL. 7* ATDC ! No wonder you had issues.

How did you initially manage to read 13* BTDC when in fact it was 7* ATDC ? That's a huge 20* out.
Did you have the vac adv inadvertently connected ?

At least now you know what it feels like to have too little timing. A good learning lesson.

Don't fixate on 34* @ 3,500rpms. That is the guideline for an OE spec motor at sea level.

I wouldn't be surprised if you end up with something like 38* @ 3,000rpms and 20* at idle. (Yes, that would be 40* at idle with the vac adv connected.)

Dialling in the timing curve will be a tedious time consuming task, but well worth it.

I had said that 15.5'' vacuum was too low coz I was basing it on 13* BTDC, and assumed a faulty gauge.

16.5'' sounds more like it, but still a tad lower then I'd expect.

Re torque the head and intake manifold bolts in addition to the header bolts etc.

Laterz

 

 

Not sure how the 7* ATDC happened. I read and read and read, asked advice, and read some more before dropping the dizzy in the motor.

Had it all marked up on the motor and the dizzy housing, but somehow that happened lol.

When I dropped the dizzy in the motor, I dropped it in with the timing mark on 13* BTDC on the #1 cylinder (compression stroke). The vac advance was connected when I fired up the motor for the first time, but I have no idea how the vac advance would affect a fresh motor with a fresh distributor being dropped in for the first time.

Since I ended up with 7* ATDC (somehow...).... wonder if it's worth investigating further?

Anywho, planning on retorquing all the bolts soon here (second oil change). Been driving the truck around, beating on it as much as possible to help seat those rings. Planning on a bunch of re-torquing, testing, tuning, and checking it all over at that second oil change interval (500 kms... 700 total cause I did 200 kms on the break-in oil).

Oil analysis isn't out of the question, but I wonder if doing it would just scare me more than I wanted lol. Isn't oil analysis more or less for a broken-in motor rather than a motor that's still being broken in?

 

They can tell both, they will see and comment on metals that are normally high during run in. I have always liked blackstone

 

Ah, ok, I thought you had set the timing initially with a timing light. (After the break in.)

Setting it up 'by eye' allows room for error, so I wouldn't stress about the 7*. (It is funny though, and I can imagine your 'WTF' expression when you saw it.)

Chances are that when you get around to the timing again, it will still be at 13*.

When it comes to oil analysis, you're both scaring me ! LOL

On a serious note, once you've finished fine tuning your BAMF engine, the oil pressure and vacuum gauges will give you a starting point for reference.

If the gauges ever drop significantly, you'll know to look for a problem (using oil analysis?). So that should be only in about 200,000 kms from now.

Seeing as your truck is giving you loads of fun, and seems to be running just fine, here's a final thought :

STOP STRESSING (LOL)