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Radiator burst!! Decisions and actions time!! Input desired.

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6.4L Power Stroke Diesel Engine fitted to 2008 - 2010 F250, F350 and F450 pickup trucks and F350 + Cab Chassis

Radiator burst!! Decisions and actions time!! Input desired.

 
  #1  
Old 06-05-2017, 06:49 PM
DieselDenny
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Radiator burst!! Decisions and actions time!! Input desired.

Short story: Towing 5'r. 45 miles from start. Noticed steam at a stop light. Pulled into a parking lot across the street and shut it down. Temps were good etc.

Inspection revealed that the radiator delaminated on the drivers side about 6 inches from the bottom.

Flat bedded that one home at the tune of 310.00 (45 miles) picked up ole red the E99 who was set up for 5'r towing and continued on the journey with no problems. (wife/girls happy).

Looked on line at Mish rad, 850.00, stock on line with warranty 194.00

Stopped by the local dealer and grabbed the top diesel tech. Asked him if he would spin for the upgraded radiator. He looked right at me and without batting an eye said.......who are you fixing it for? Your original lasted ten years. "put the money in your pocket and the date on your calendar".

He further said, while it's out change your thermostats out while your wide open as it's much easier. Inspect or change your tension pulley and renew your belt. He said the thermostats will overcharge the pressure if faulty and smoke the same spot I did in the radiator. (a known weak point).

He also relayed that since the 6.0, he has only worked on 4 (four) 6.4's in 10 years and the reasons were abuse of the fuel system not being purged for water or the filters not changed on schedule. He also said that everyone gives the 6.4 the scurge because most owners with high pockets don't maintain them and just drive them into failure without maintaining them because they might break a nail. He again reassured me that it is a top PS platform if properly maintained.

I went on to ask about the EGR delete and he said why is it trouble, I said not yet, he said, don't waste your time unless it is trouble and just delete it at that point but if your coolant is maintained, you have little to worry about.

This guy has wore a blue oval patch at the same dealership for 32 years. He is MR DIESEL in my neck.

SOooooooooooooo, I'm thinking I'm going to opt for the stock rad, renew the belt, the stats and tension and knowing that I just did a complete flush, put humpty back together again unless I get some ill advise on my plan??!!

Denny
 
  #2  
Old 06-05-2017, 08:15 PM
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IMHO, I agree with your mechanic! as a potential option.....Well, let me start by saying, I understand what you are saying, and the "modern radiators" have a design life of 7-10 years.

I have always purchased from US Radiator, but when the radiator plastic part began failing on my wifes 97 Cougar Sport (which lasted 17 years with an anode), called them and it's too new of a car and they recommended:

Radiator Express
RadiatorExpress.com | Radiators for Sale
Irvine, CA
866-723-3977

I was very pleased with the product, it was built exactly to the oem specs. What I liked about this place is when I spoke to their support staff, the person I spoke with had definitely experienced getting their hands dirty on a car.......when I asked questions, I got answers....no hesitation. Whit I also liked is they track installation issues that both mechanics & customers have so when you place your order, they order the brand/mfg that has the least amount of reported issues......and it came from the same plant that mfg's the oem unit for that car.
 
  #3  
Old 06-05-2017, 09:21 PM
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Thanx for being "the parrot on the shoulder". I sincerely appreciate the feedback.

I'm a 17 year diesel owner and from what I've gleaned from this forum is sheer hatred for the 6.4.

I can spin a wrench and am not afraid of anything that rocks the boat.

Another thing the 32 year tech said was that there are not alot of 6.4's on the road??!!

I asked him what he meant. He said after the 6.0's failed miserably that they couldn't give them away.

That explains alot to me in term of this forum. I have had a E99 since birth and belong to the 7.3 forum where there is a plethora of help and influence on decisions and alot of heart to heart. This forum is a ghost town, which leads me to believe they are indeed excellant engines or are mostly trouble free with due diligence.

I'm hoping so, but so far, everything I've encountered has been a TSB and I'm hawking this thing because it turns way inside my 99 and can pull the teeth out of anything I ever tethered up to.

Appreciate it!

Denny
 
  #4  
Old 06-06-2017, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by DieselDenny View Post
Another thing the 32 year tech said was that there are not alot of 6.4's on the road??!!
well, there arent a lot of ford 6.4's becuase folks part them out when they get hit with 7k - 11k - 20k repair bills after warranty.

but there are a lot of 6.4's on the road...most of the small school buses have the international 6.4 engine that ford put in the 2008 - 2010 superduty.

I agree with your mechanic...go stock ...in this particular case.

make sure the front body bushings are checked and replaced if needed. there are two versions...brown rubber and black rubber...I think the brown rubber ones were put in to soften the ride but they wore out faster so black rubber ones are not standard....or vs versa.
 
  #5  
Old 06-06-2017, 03:22 PM
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Fritz, I took a look and mine are black. Slid up to Ford and asked THE MAN and he said that the black are like hockey pucks in comparison. Much harder.

He also said to make sure to re-torque the body mounts if I didn't know if the cab was ever lifted and I don't.

I will do so.

I appreciate your input and while I have the rad out, changing therms, tens and water pump. Aside from the coolant filter system is there anything else I should eyeball in the grand slam. Not pulling the egr coolers upon the mans advice because I have no issues at this point with them and don't need to create one. (baby step thing).

Appreciate you guys more than you know.

Denny
 
  #6  
Old 06-07-2017, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by DieselDenny View Post
...he has only worked on 4 (four) 6.4's in 10 years and the reasons were abuse of the fuel system not being purged for water or the filters not changed on schedule. He also said that everyone gives the 6.4 the scurge because most owners with high pockets don't maintain them and just drive them into failure without maintaining them because they might break a nail. He again reassured me that it is a top PS platform if properly maintained.
Sorry to hear about the troubles Denny. I have to say I am glad to hear someone say what your diesel man said about the 6.4. Makes sense. I wonder though...I still have my EGR coolers on the truck...though they are disabled via tune. Can I go by the same suggestion your tech made? In that I should leave them on until they become an issue? I thought that by the time they were an issue, something terrible has already happened.

Sorry...I don't mean to steer the thread in another direction.
 
  #7  
Old 06-08-2017, 03:48 PM
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Sorry Pic, long days and nights lately.

I guess the answer to your question is simply this.

You had it wide open when you did your rad. It's not a big pain to do with everything in place but much easier.

In my eyes, I'm a see a snake kill it, type of guy so at this point I'm going to leave it in place so I don't open up another can of worms until I've fished my last worm.

Is it on my bucket list, yes. Is it degrading anything as long as it's not leaking or the valves aren't doing what they should? It isn't so I'm going to leave mine in place at this point and address it when I get all the other issues of current resolved.

If your tune takes the valving and flow process out of the equation, than I would think that in effect it is deleted. It's just unnessecary hardware in the way at this point.

Me being me.........if I have the time (rare) and can simply focus on a project, It's on my list. But for the holy **** this needs to be done asap....no.

Read up, part up, make a plan when you have to do the belt or tens and attack it then.

Did you replace your therms when you did the rad?? If not, that's a big get on them.

Regards,

Denny
 
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Old 06-08-2017, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by DieselDenny View Post
Sorry Pic, long days and nights lately.

I guess the answer to your question is simply this.

You had it wide open when you did your rad. It's not a big pain to do with everything in place but much easier.

In my eyes, I'm a see a snake kill it, type of guy so at this point I'm going to leave it in place so I don't open up another can of worms until I've fished my last worm.

Is it on my bucket list, yes. Is it degrading anything as long as it's not leaking or the valves aren't doing what they should? It isn't so I'm going to leave mine in place at this point and address it when I get all the other issues of current resolved.

If your tune takes the valving and flow process out of the equation, than I would think that in effect it is deleted. It's just unnessecary hardware in the way at this point.

Me being me.........if I have the time (rare) and can simply focus on a project, It's on my list. But for the holy **** this needs to be done asap....no.

Read up, part up, make a plan when you have to do the belt or tens and attack it then.

Did you replace your therms when you did the rad?? If not, that's a big get on them.

Regards,

Denny
Thanks for the words of wisdom Denny. I hear you when you say the coolers are essentially deleted. However I believe they can still spring a leak and cause damage even if they aren't functioning. So its only a matter of time on that I guess.

I haven't done a radiator yet...thankfully. I'm sure that is only a matter of time as well.
 
  #9  
Old 06-12-2017, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by DieselDenny View Post
Short story: Towing 5'r. 45 miles from start. Noticed steam at a stop light. Pulled into a parking lot across the street and shut it down. Temps were good etc.

Inspection revealed that the radiator delaminated on the drivers side about 6 inches from the bottom.

Flat bedded that one home at the tune of 310.00 (45 miles) picked up ole red the E99 who was set up for 5'r towing and continued on the journey with no problems. (wife/girls happy).

Looked on line at Mish rad, 850.00, stock on line with warranty 194.00

Stopped by the local dealer and grabbed the top diesel tech. Asked him if he would spin for the upgraded radiator. He looked right at me and without batting an eye said.......who are you fixing it for? Your original lasted ten years. "put the money in your pocket and the date on your calendar".

He further said, while it's out change your thermostats out while your wide open as it's much easier. Inspect or change your tension pulley and renew your belt. He said the thermostats will overcharge the pressure if faulty and smoke the same spot I did in the radiator. (a known weak point).

He also relayed that since the 6.0, he has only worked on 4 (four) 6.4's in 10 years and the reasons were abuse of the fuel system not being purged for water or the filters not changed on schedule. He also said that everyone gives the 6.4 the scurge because most owners with high pockets don't maintain them and just drive them into failure without maintaining them because they might break a nail. He again reassured me that it is a top PS platform if properly maintained.

I went on to ask about the EGR delete and he said why is it trouble, I said not yet, he said, don't waste your time unless it is trouble and just delete it at that point but if your coolant is maintained, you have little to worry about.

This guy has wore a blue oval patch at the same dealership for 32 years. He is MR DIESEL in my neck.

SOooooooooooooo, I'm thinking I'm going to opt for the stock rad, renew the belt, the stats and tension and knowing that I just did a complete flush, put humpty back together again unless I get some ill advise on my plan??!!

Denny

The biggest thing that can get over looked on the stock radiator is the rubber mounts/isolators and degas tank cap, if your changing the radiator change them. The biggest issue with the stock radiators is torsional twist of the frame frame being transferred to the radiator causing damage to the tanks and seals, also make sure you have the up dated upper radiator hose with the dual o-rings.

The miso radiator is a very good product but i have seen them fail the same way the factory radiators fail from the twist as mentioned above.
 
  #10  
Old 06-12-2017, 03:23 PM
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Caps fresh, stock radiator fresh and ready to install, great tip on the bushings!!! I'll renew. Hope the dealer stocks them or I'll be a day out.

I'll be spinning wrenches after work tomorrow and update.

Thanx for the heads up!

Denny
 
  #11  
Old 06-12-2017, 03:24 PM
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BTW Mish hoses are new.

(where is the emoticon with the gold coin when you need it!!!)
 
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Old 06-13-2017, 07:52 AM
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Hey everyone, thanks for the comments. We're well versed in the issues that plague this truck and wanted to jump in to provide a bit more context on what Mishimoto is doing to help keep 6.4L owners on the road.

First, let me say that we are willing to honor our lifetime warranty on all Mishimoto Ford 6.4L radiators. A while back, we had purchased a 6.4L truck from a customer that had gone through numerous OEM and aftermarket radiator failures in efforts to research the root cause and provide a solution to the community. From our research, the chassis flex can lift the radiator and allow it to flex. This ultimately leads to a failure in the radiator. On top of making the radiator more rigid, we currently produce replacement lower bushings which are included with the radiators at this time. If you purchased your Mishimoto radiator before these lower bushings were offered, we can send you a set at no charge. The bushings are made from EPDM and are thicker than the OEM rubber bushings to allow for the radiator to sit more snug and secure in the chassis.

Along with the bushings we also released an upper support bar that is made from steel to replace the aluminum bar from Ford. This steel bar helps increase the rigidity of the front end of the truck to help minimize the flex in the system. We have been testing this combination for about a year now without a single failure in our truck. We have also sent out prototypes to a few shops and end customers for additional real world testing. So far, the feedback has been overwhelmingly positive. We even went through lengths to put the upper support bar through the ultimate stress test, lifting an entire 6.4L engine in the video below.


At this time, we feel that we are currently doing everything we can to engineer a solution for the issue that Ford has ignored. We understand that our customers love their trucks and they don't believe the solution is to go out and purchase a new truck. The improvements mentioned above represent a huge step towards solving these chassis flex issues once and for all. In the meantime, we’re keeping a close eye on the results and feedback our customers provide; ultimately backing everything with our Lifetime Warranty.”


-Mishimoto
 

Last edited by Mishimoto; 06-15-2017 at 09:00 AM. Reason: small mistake, bushings are made from EPDM not polyurethane
  #13  
Old 06-13-2017, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Mishimoto View Post
Hey everyone, thanks for the comments. We're well versed in the issues that plague this truck and wanted to jump in to provide a bit more context on what Mishimoto is doing to help keep 6.4L owners on the road.

First, let me say that we are willing to honor our lifetime warranty on all Mishimoto Ford 6.4L radiators. A while back, we had purchased a 6.4L truck from a customer that had gone through numerous OEM and aftermarket radiator failures in efforts to research the root cause and provide a solution to the community. From our research, the chassis flex can lift the radiator and allow it to flex. This ultimately leads to a failure in the radiator. On top of making the radiator more rigid, we currently produce replacement lower bushings which are included with the radiators at this time. If you purchased your Mishimoto radiator before these lower bushings were offered, we can send you a set at no charge. The bushings are made from polyurethane and are thicker than the OEM rubber bushings to allow for the radiator to sit more snug and secure in the chassis.

Along with the bushings we also released an upper support bar that is made from steel to replace the aluminum bar from Ford. This steel bar helps increase the rigidity of the front end of the truck to help minimize the flex in the system. We have been testing this combination for about a year now without a single failure in our truck. We have also sent out prototypes to a few shops and end customers for additional real world testing. So far, the feedback has been overwhelmingly positive. We even went through lengths to put the upper support bar through the ultimate stress test, lifting an entire 6.4L engine in the video below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPmzYpeUtNY

At this time, we feel that we are currently doing everything we can to engineer a solution for the issue that Ford has ignored. We understand that our customers love their trucks and they don't believe the solution is to go out and purchase a new truck. The improvements mentioned above represent a huge step towards solving these chassis flex issues once and for all. In the meantime, we’re keeping a close eye on the results and feedback our customers provide; ultimately backing everything with our Lifetime Warranty.”


-Mishimoto

Wow, why to go after the problem, how long has the new upper support been available?
 
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Old 06-16-2017, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by SANDDEMON08 View Post
Wow, why to go after the problem, how long has the new upper support been available?
Hello SANDDEMON08

Thank you for the comment as well as the positivity. Our 6.4L upper support bar has been available to the public since very early this February. So far our feedback on this product has been absolutely amazing. As of today , we have zero reported radiator failures from customers with our upper support bar installed in their vehicle.

-Jake
Mishimoto
 
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Old 06-29-2017, 09:31 AM
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Just figured I'd drop my $.02 in here on this subject

I have owned my 6.4 for 5 years now, when I first bought it I was driving it round trip to work 100+ miles per day.

I experienced my first radiator failure at approx 60,xxxmi. I spent countless hours reading forums dedicated to the rad issues in these trucks and finally decided on the mishimoto v1 rad. Installed myself at home in about three hours, did some other pm things in the process also. My thought process at the time was that these trucks are notorious for having rad failures and I'll spend the extra coin to have a better cooling rad and one that is replaced free of charge if I have another issue.

I experienced my second failure at approx 80,xxx. Truck was already scheduled to go to my local diesel shop for head studs and manifolds and up pipes. This was done out of caution, not need. I had the shop install the rad at the same time. Talk about relief when my mishimoto v2 showed up at no charge, after saving to have my heads pulled and so on I wouldn't have been able to afford to purchase another radiator. (Note: at this point the truck was just a weekend warrior, I attained a company truck and maybe put 200mi on a week, it was about a year and a half since the first rad had been installed.)

I currently have my 3rd mishimoto (v2) sitting in the shop waiting to go into the truck. Currently truck has 102,xxxmi. Again at no charge to me. I just want to take a minute and say that if I would have gone with a stock rad the first time I would have now needed to buy 3. This is two years since the shop installed the 2nd rad.

After seeing these failures it is blatantly obvious to me that these failures are caused by chassis flex, not cooling system issues. My cap on the degas bottle gets replaced with every oil change, I have no EGR coolers to contribute to elevated pressures in the cooling system. My heads were 100% square when pulled and checked and I don't beat the truck, never been above 1100 degrees EGT temp and very rarely see even 900degrees. Coolant temp has never seen 200 degrees.

I can't say enough about mishimoto's customer service.

Regarding those of you that still have EGR coolers installed on your trucks, exhaust and coolant are still present in the coolers. All the tune does is close the valve where the exhaust would re enter the intake, thus your potential for failure is still present. These trucks will crack coolers even with the valve closed. A cracked cooler will fill the rear drivers side with coolant and cause a hydro lock situation. Why take the chance of ruining a 15k engine when a EGR delete can be had for less than $500 and 4-5 hours of time in your shop?
 

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