Gentlemen
I need your help. Here is the story about my generator problems. Can you give me some advice on my next step?

my 1950 Ford F1 flathead V8 was making horrible noise so I took the generator into the shop to be rebuilt. Now the problems start.

Battery will not hold a charge. The truck starts no problem, the dash gauge shows it is charging. I return after letting the truck sit for 30 minutes and the battery is totally dead. I have replaced the battery and the problem is still there.

Can i get some advice on my next step?

Greg

 

Help me understand something: is the truck running during the 30 minute period?

 

Did you repolarize it after you installed it?

JB

 

Are you sure the regulator doesn't have a stuck cutout relay? That would do it. This will cause the battery to backfeed into the generator and smoke the field coils or whatever. It may even motor the engine, or cause a fire. Should notice that the generator is getting hot if the battery is backfeeding, obviously.

It's good practice to bring the regulator in along with the generator so the shop can check it out and adjust the cutout, current, and voltage settings if required when rebuilding the generator. Or maybe the shop has a good used regulator they can supply too if needed. I like to always couple a new regulator when replacing a generator so everything is on the same sheet of music.

Avoid like the plague the el-cheapo regulators, you want a good old school Autolite or maybe Echlin, Standard etc. These are noticeably heavier, better quality units. Spool up the RPM to around 2000 or so with the headlights and heater fan on, and then check voltage at battery terminals for proper voltage. Need to see about two (2) volts above nominal battery voltage, depending on battery state of charge, and ambient temperature. All charging systems need absolutely clean and tight low resistance grounds and connections or stuff gets roasted.

 

I did leave it running for over 30 minutes. shut it off. waited an hour and t he battery was completely dead

 

i thought I did. I did not see the blue spark but the shop said I might not see it. I did it against the voltage regulator

 

You aren't really charging and are only running off the battery.

Start with the basics. Take the generator and the regulator back to the shop and have them checked for output. The shop should also polarize the generator. Check your wiring to ensure that you are correctly connected per the wiring diagram.

 

Well, with all of your help I think it is fixed. Here is what I think I did.

I did not polarize it properly. I was using the battery to run it (like Fortyniner) said. When I did that I damaged the voltage regulator. When that happened I have been fighting that ghost. I basically started from scratch

I removed the battery, removed the voltage regulator and replaced it. I pulled the battery and replaced it also. I used this forum and when I replaced everything I did it in order and everything seemed to work.

Thanks to all of you who helped. I am hoping when I go downstairs the truck will start.

 

Good to hear, Raptor. I trust you checked the output and liked the numbers.

 

SO fellow members. I need your experience. Here is the total story, continued from the start.

Truck had no issues starting from the moment I bought it. The generator started making noise so I pulled it and had it rebuilt. From there I had a few attempts after I installed it to polarize it properly. I replaced the battery, voltage regulator and then polarized it again and it seemed to work. I drove the truck to a car show over 150 miles with multiple stops and no problems. I thought it was fixed. Fast forward a few weeks and it was a nice day so I decided to take the truck out. I started it, pulled it out of the garage and headed to the gas station. Again, it started great and ran beautifully! I drove to the gas station (about 2 miles away) and shut it off. Filled it up and it will not start. When I hit the start button a single click is heard. I tried to jump start it and nothing. single click. I pulled the battery and charged it, took it down and had it load tested. All is good. Pulled the generator again and had it checked. All is good. Replaced the voltage regulator again (from autozone) and again, single click. I tried a stater solenoid from autozone they said would work and it didn't even click so I put the old one back. Such a simple system but I am lost on what happened. Everything was good till I rebuilt the generator. Would my starter button cause this? Has any of you experienced this and have some direction for me?

 

My truck did this when I first got it. We did all sorts of corrective measures. Turns out the starter was binding on the flywheel and jamming. Put it in third with the switch off and rock it a little and see if that un-jams it. After we rebuilt the starter that went away.

JB

 

I had almost the exact same thing happen. Decided I needed to re wire my 51. Would not start afterwards. Just click like yours. After some trouble shooting. The starter button ground through the dash was poor .. so I replaced starter button with one that has 2 terminals. That way I ran my ground to where the VR mounts to fire wall. Problem solved. I found a nice button with a rubber cover and it looks just fine.

 

I would start by going over all the battery cables and their connections. Clean, bright, and tight! This issue sounds very, very much like a bad ground or loose cable.

 

Just ran into generator problems with my slick. It had been Rebuilt with all new bearings and brushes, NOS Motorcraft regulator etc. I thought "Well I won't have to worry about that." Hm.

Nobody hardly understands generators today, btw. Bet you know that already. Probably not too many back then did either, but today, forget it. No one hardly can help at a part store. A few farmers might, because of tractors. If you choose to run a generator, you better get the shop manual, and dig around for other scholarly work on these beasts. MoTors manual has some good stuff. Digital voltmeters aren't always useful here, because the voltages are being mechanically switched in the regulator points. They will work fine for measuring at the battery.

Polarization may be required (before the engine is started), whenever a generator is disassembled/reassembled, or has sat for a long time, or maybe dropped. Simply replacing or disconnecting the battery, replacing a regulator, does not require polarization. Polarization reminds the generator magnets which direction it needs to send the juice. Polarization is done at the regulator, but the regulator itself doesn't ever need polarization.

Here's where the manual helps. Because there are different types of generator systems "A" and "B" circuits (Ford is type "B") there are different procedures. Following the method for the wrong circuit can roast windings in the regulator. So don't listen to Uncle Ralph, who drove a GM. There is a lot of bogus info online on polarization too - read the manual!

Ford: The wires marked FLD and BAT are disconnected at the regulator and momentarily touched together. Engine OFF, not running. That's it. No jumper wires, and the FLD and BAT wires disconnected, so that way no damage can occur to the regulator. Anyway...
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You can run some basic tests with the generator on or off the truck. I did all those with my truck, and they passed. More on that later.

Disconnect the field and armature wires at the generator and install a jumper wire between the two posts. Start the engine and run at a high idle. Output should increase on a voltmeter to a high level connected to ARM terminal and ground. Just run this test long enough to see if it works.

If it does, the problem is in the regulator. Usually. If not, there is a problem inside the generator.

First thing to check though probably is the brushes. If they were not installed correctly everything will work fine for a while. See if you can jam a screwdriver or something on them, and push them tight against the commutator while idling. They can get get hung up in the holders as they wear a little bit, and open circuit or full field voltage tests like mentioned above will sometimes read OK, but not under actual load. See if the full field test will light up a tailbulb.

Normally brushes last a long time but if they are not installed correctly they get stuck, or maybe one of them will burn. New brushes on a rebuild need to be sanded down against the commutator so they present a full contact patch and are tight against the commutator first thing before they are ran. Normally in service a whole new backing plate (with new brushes) was installed, this can be done without removing generator.

 

The advice here is always the best, I had starting problems like yours and found the problem was the ignition switch
Ed
near Philadelphia