Yea we have all seen the hill climbs and other tests and wondered, well wonder no more:

GM and Bosch in the firing line for 705,000 alleged dirty diesels

GM and Bosch in the firing line for 705,000 alleged dirty diesels
Scott Collie May 25, 2017

A class action has been filed against GM

The casualties keep mounting up in the diesel-emissions scandal, with General Motors coming under fire for allegedly installing defeat devices on over 700,000 vehicles with Duramax engines. A class action lawsuit argues GM and Bosch knowingly sold cars tuned to emit illegal amounts of nitrogen oxide (NOx) when outside the test environment.

According to the lawsuit, Duramax diesels were fitted with three "defeat devices," similar to those used in the now-infamous Volkswagen emissions cheating scandal. When the car was placed in a test environment, the engine would be "de-rated" to meet emissions standards, before defaulting back to a more powerful, less environmentally friendly state of tune out on the open road.

The claim, filed in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan, alleges 705,000 Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra trucks with Duramax diesel engines sold between 2011 and 2016 are fitted with the defeat devices. Bosch, the company which manufactures the chips in GM engines, has also been named as a defendant.

"Increased sales and thus increased profits drove GM to use at least these three defeat devices in its Duramax diesel engines," the complaint states. "By reversing the traditional order of the exhaust treatment components and putting the Selective Catalytic Reduction in front of the Diesel Particulate Filter, GM could obtain and market higher power and efficiency from its engines while still passing the cold-start emissions certification tests."

 

VW has screwed everybodys game up. lol

 

If particulate emissions are going to be tightly regulated, diesels will become very rare. They are already banned in some European city centers. Which is funny, because it wasn't long ago that some European areas gave tax incentives for diesels.

Now that GTDI engines are a common thing, the advantage of diesels is diminished in many applications.

 

government out of control

 

The same law firm (Hagen Berman Shapiro) has filed the same class action suit against almost all automotive diesel manufacturers (MB, Fiat, GM so far) for installing defeat devices. I find it hard to believe they have clients in all these vehicles who have deduced on their own with credible evidence that their cars would fail emissions testing if the vehicle was not in a "test mode". I believe this firm is just trying to squeeze every ounce of juice out of the VW scandle, and will probably not net any return for their clients, but will drag down our legal processes, and drive up national fear over diesel vehicles in North America.

 

They have no doubt tapped a very rich deposit of cash that they can continue to pump dry. These people don't care about emissions, they just found an easy lawsuit that they already developed a formula to succeed with. The car companies will end up paying hundreds of millions of which this Law Firm will end up getting well over 60% of, plus their "expenses". The actual customers will all receive a check from $10 to a couple hundred each. The lawyers become millionaires and the the car companies losses are tacked on to future vehicle invoices and everyone loses except Hagen, Berman & Shapiro. The best part is our air is no cleaner nor are our trucks.

There are two types of people in this world; Money Makers and Money Takers. I have little respect for people who make a living taking money from hard working people.

 

Check out the Hagen Berman website for a brief on each of these class action lawsuits. It'll make for a good laugh if it doesn't make you want to raise your fist in anger. If you've ever had to take your vehicle in for testing, then line like this might give you a chuckle "The consumers bringing this lawsuit....have tested the vehicles in real-world conditions, only to find pollution at high levels in nearly all condition, including downhill driving and at various speeds and temperatures". No claim of misdoings, mind you, just an observation by these savvy consumers. Or how about the claim that "Every day I hear from another Mercedes customer who feels betrayed by your scam". I hope this isn't crossing the legal discussion prohibition on the forum, but this all looks like politicized, or at least fear mongering, b.s. that law firms are famous for.

 

My buddy had two VWs effected. He received service coupons, gift cards, ect. And after all that, VW ultimately bought back both cars for more than what he paid.

Interesting to watch this play out for GM

 

Maybe it is just my not liking government having their hands in everything, but the way I look at it, the rules state that under these testing conditions, vehicles have to produce these results.


All of these vehicles do just that. Now the government is trying to say that under different conditions, we expect the same results even though you pass the initial test as defined.

 

A few million here and there, a big donation to the right environmental group, an even bigger donation to the right political party and -- It's all settled...... That's what the people filing the lawsuit want.

VW fought it. GM quite possibly won't.

Likely, the case is already worked out beforehand and they just take it to a Judge to make it appear legal. The EPA does that all the time. They get sued by an evironMENTAList group but have a deal worked out ahead of time just waiting for a Judge's rubber stamp to make it look like it's on the up and up.

It's not. Nothing those people do ever is.

They do this crap all the time.

Remember when Toyota went through a shakedown over the acceleration issue?

Nothing was ever proven. Nothing. Ever. Never. Ever. But they paid the price just to keep these certain people off their backs and continue to do business in this Country

Got nothing to do with Justice, pollution, the EPA or anything else other than -- A shakedown by certain people.

And guess who pays for it? You do. They just shift the expense of these things onto the buying public.

Let's see what happens with this one. It will be interesting in these somewhat changing times

 

Not sure if I agree with that at all.



IF GM is caught "installing defeat devices on over 700,000 vehicles with Duramax engines. "

For the sole purpose of getting an unfair advantage in the market it would seem this is very much in scope for justice, pollution, the EPA, and the consumer who is being misled. When one of these trucks fails an emissions test, it's good to know the consumer won't (shouldn't) be left holding the bag. The intent here is what really matters as far as the law is concerned.

Not a fan of the EPA that much, but all of these manufacturers need to be on the same playing field - whatever it is. We've been yelling for decades how China isn't playing fair in various areas - we have to tend to our own issues as well.

 

The EPA itself tests these engines then they turn around, years later, and say, "You cheated!!"

Are they that stupid? Are they that incompetent that companies can swindle them at every turn?

Maybe they're the ones that should be getting sued for gross incompetence.

It's a game. A money game. A shakedown by certain people.

It happens all the time. ALL the time.

Everybody knows it, they just write it off as the price of doing business in the USA. Then the Company just turns around and passes the cost onto you and I.

You buy Ford? So do I, but guess what Ford will do if GM raises the price of their Diesel trucks by a $1,000? You think Ford is gonna let an opportunity like that pass them by? HELL no. They're gonna raise their prices too. So will Fiat.

Corporations don't pay fines, taxes or penalties....... They collect them. From you

The difference between us and China is, at least China is honest about their bribery. You bribe the right officials over there and you're in the clear.

Here, they use lawyers..... And their willing accomplices in a certain political spheres of influence

 

Well, cheaters will always find a way. I agree with some of what you said in that last post, a lot of it really... the consumer is always going to eat it... always has. That's a fact.

GM is going to eat some of it too, when they lose even more of their remaining reputation, which equates to sales.

There is also room for conspiracy therories... or it could just be as simple as GM (not surprisingly) engaging in unethical practices that they are eventually caught engaged in. Could be..

They can't compete ethically, so they will do so in other ways. All of this is just 'alleged' at this point. But if it turns out they are trying to game the system, and it probably will, they will have to face the music as will the consumers. That doesn't mean we don't go after them. It means what it always has - eventually the cheaters are caught. Why, how, and by whom, I know I don't care.

It would be like me protesting Trumps election because we know Russia 'may have' helped him out by exposing Hillary for what she was, and is.. I don't care who exposes the losers, as long as someone does.

 

1. Who did the original testing and how did it get by them?

2. Who figured out that Isuzu was gaming the EPA?

3. Who is suing whom on behalf of who??

4. If there is award money won in the case, where does it go? (wanna bet about 80% of it goes to the law firm of dewey cheatum and howe?)

5. Then look at Open Secrets .org to see who those dirtbags are contributing money to

6. It's not a theory if it's a fact.

I'm no fan of Generic Motors. Not by a LONG SHOT. But this is just another shakedown on an Industry that has been hit hard enough over the decades.

Plus the fact, why are diesels that pass every test in Germany, Japan, The UK, France, Belgium, Spain and every other Country that has even stricter rules than ours on pollution -- Why are they still a favorite whipping boy of our own EPA???

Why?

Here's a list that shows new car registrations in Europe and what engines they run......

File:New passenger cars by type of engine fuel, 2013.png - Statistics Explained

France has over TWICE as many diesels registered as gas engines. And there IS no more PC Country than those cheese eating, wine sipping surrender monkeys.

But here?

It's the EPA. And their willing accomplices.

Period.

Why? Maybe because the fumes give our special little snowflakes a headache.

Whatevs.

Follow the money.

Always

They're coming after you next. Believe it. There WILL be a special tax on Diesels in the near future if you don't get these dirtbags under control.

Believe it

 

Having been in several Class Action lawsuits with settlements in the tens of millions here is what I got:

Kawasaki: $225 certificate for accessories costing over $750 on my next vehicle purchase from an Auth dealer.

American Airlines: As a Million-Mile+ flier I got $36 dollars, to be used $10 at a time on Full Fare Ticket purchases for travel outside my state (Texas).

Both contained a note to be sure and NOT spend it all in one place at one time due to the financial impact our the US Economy...

Postscript: $225 never used, AA, used a $10 buck off a $1100 buck ticket once.