Hey Guys,
I spent the morning searching this a few different ways, didn't find a current thread so decided to make one.

My truck 2004 F350, V10 Auto, 2WD, DRW w/ 4:30 rear gear.
Mostly used to tow my race car trailer, sometimes parts runner around town.
Currently has 65K miles on it.

Mods are simple, Y Pipe and 5 Star tune, Cat deleted, 4" MBRP exhaust.

I love the truck, but one thing I have always disliked about it was the transmission. Despite a lot of hard work by Mike and the 5 Star guys fine tuning my tune (and by that mostly the shift strategies), this trans just seems ill suited to the V10.

After towing with a V10 for the past 13 years my goal for towing with the V10 is to keep that motor in its sweet spot above 2500 RPM and more gears would seems to be the best option, kind of like a peaky race engine and a CR trans keeping the engine it its power band.

With the current trans there seem to be MANY instances when it either drops the engine out of its peak power RPM range, or places you in too low of a gear and you are just revving away not getting anywhere.

I have read threads about guys wanting to swap 6 speeds in, stand along trans controllers, and I have seen some suggesting an few aftermarket build ups of the current trans and a new torque converter.

In my mind the mythical best option is a 6 speed auto trans with a manual shift mode and a set of steering wheel buttons or a manual shifter that could put in manual mode when towing, hills and similar tough towing times (think vintage Mopar Slapstick LOL)

I live in Northeast PA and tow to VA, west to Pittsburgh, north to NY a lot. Lots of up and down hills.
It seems I am constantly riding the OD button to feet the revs up (or let it shift into OD so we can roll),,, and,,, at other times delicately trying to keep the trans from kicking down into 2nd, while getting enough throttle in to pull a hill so that it doesn't flash to 5000 RPM.
The 5 Star guys have helped a lot with the last problem, they sent me an adjustment that lets me open the throttles ALOT more before the trans will kick down a gear. That was a huge help,,, but I still want it to be better.

What is the current "hot" option for a V10 Auto trans (that would install into a 2004) for towing to best keep the engine in its sweet spot?
I don't want to rewire the whole truck with a full engine & chassis harness, but I don't mind getting a little bloody if the payoff is good.

 

Subscribing!

 

Seem's like a ZF6 is in order. That's probably the only way or force induction. Sorry if it's not wanted to hear but the 6.8 makes all its power over 3500 rpm that's where this engine powers at.

 

Unless my tach is reading completely wrong I'd have to disagree with the power at 3500 part (unless its a typo and you were going for 2500).

When I tow and can keep my truck at 2500 or above it flies.
With 4:30 gears if I can keep it on the boil at 2500 or above I'll run 75 MPH with my 9000 lb 26' trailer behind and the bed loaded with tires, tent and fuel.
At 2500 or above (and 2750 seems to really be the happy place) if feels like its running downhill.

There is a 1000 RPM drop between OD in and OD off but a bigger drop from 2nd gear to 3rd gear.
Thats what I'd love to tighten up.

 

Have you looked into the gear vendors under/overdrive units it can split gears and sounds like it should be able to do what you want if they have one for your truck. Other than that a stand alone trans controller might be the only option and I don't know if that would really help you anymore than what's already been done besides a manual. But you would still have to figure out what to do with the computer so it's not looking for the auto trans.

 

I just saw you had 4.30 no experience there only with 3.73. But here's a thought what about you swap to 3.73 and run with OD off? I remember when my wife's Excursion had 3.73 with OD off doing 65-70 it was at 2500-2800 rpm but a draw back you loose towing power that 4.30 gave you.

 

I have an '05 EXcursion with the same 2V V-10/4R100 that serves as our dedicated tow rig for our 41' 11,000lb travel trailer that we pull all over the Eastern States. It has a set of Banks headers (with Y pipe) and a collection of custom tunes from 5Star. It started out with factory 3.73 gears and while it always got us to our destination, it wasn't much fun on ANY hill/incline, heck, it would downshift if it ran over a shadow! I had plans to eventually upgrade to 35" tires because to me that size tire just looks "right" on these big wagons. So with those big tire plans in mind I did a gear change and swapped the 3.73s for a set of 4.88s, I wanted to end up with an effective 4.30-ish ratio once the 35"s were mounted.
When towing with the 3.73s (pulling a 9,500lb toyhauler) we made a few trips from home near Philly to/from SC/GA along I-95 and saw 6 to 7 MPG with downshifts on every hill (just the small rolling hills in MD/VA) and most highway overpasses, this was also before the custom tunes. With only the change to the 4.88s running the same 32" tires as we had been rolling on with the 3.73 and no other changes, towing the same TH at the same weight at the same speeds over the exact same route we saw a solid 9 MPG on a trip to/from Savannah GA. And it did not downshift a single time the entire highway portion of the trip! And the improvement in acceleration getting up to speed was waaay better of course. I ran that setup for two years before finally getting my 35"s, during that time I also got the tunes and learned how to best use them in my situation.
Currently we are towing 11k with an effective 4.39 ratio and typically use the 89 Octane Performance tune, which allows for higher throttle openings while climbing hills in OD. Under load at highway speed (63/68 MPH) I can roll the throttle open to 65% and hold onto OD in the 2200/2400 RPM range and either maintain speed or only drop a few MPHs on the steeper/longer grades. It will drop down a gear on the few very steep highway grades here in the East but they are fairly rare.
Since we are currently running the same gear ratio ( your 4.30s vs my 4.39 effective 4.88/35" tire combo) and similar tunes and you are still not entirely happy with your hill climbing performance I would recommend going to deeper gears. Trying to get a different auto trans to mate up to your 2V V-10 and work well will end up costing more than a single axle (RWD) gear change and the new trans would still have you at the same final drive ratio in OD as you are now. Don't fear the gear (especially on a tow rig!), with the 4.88s my unloaded mileage did go down about 2 MPG (14 down to 12) but it sounds like this truck sees most of its miles with a trailer on the hitch, just like my EX. I think if you went with 4.88s you would be very happy with the truck's hill climbing performance and I doubt that you would see very much of a MPG loss as you would be staying in OD more on the hills vs dropping down a gear and sucking more gas. I know that my EX felt like a locomotive when it was rolling on 32"s with the 4.88 gears, it just ate up the hills with ease and got better mileage doing it!

 

What size tires are you running now? Deleting the cat may have done you more harm than good, especially at low RPMs.

The V10 makes 80% of it's peak torque at only 1500RPM - so it almost sounds like it's not running right. When was the last time you cleaned the MAF?

No one I've heard about has done any transmission conversions on these trucks. If anything you hear about someone wanting to shove a V10 into a classic truck (or car) and needs a standalone controller. But not the other way around. And I've never heard reports back from people that went that route, almost as if they gave up and did something different.

The guys at 5-star worked with me a lot on shifting, but I was trying to maximize gas mileage on my commute (that I no longer do with the truck). It was about keeping it out of OD at low speeds, say 40-50, and the only thing they couldn't go anything about was the torque converter lockup in 3rd. Everything else was adjustable.

I have to agree that if your DRW is not dealing with the weight you're trying to tow, I would say steeper gears are the only way to get what you want, without spending lots of money on a project that has never been tried before - unless you're into that sort of thing

 

I would say hat the truck is running perfectly.
I may have not been clear, in that I am not having a tough time towing, what I did have time to ponder for 9 hours each way last weekend was how it could be "better".
Once I get my truck up into that 2500 RPM range it runs like its going downhill.
Its the gear drops that I was thinking / hoping there might be a patch for. The 1000 RPM drop from OD in to OD out and the even bigger gap from 2nd gear to 3rd / Drive.

As I knew later V10s and newer truck have 6 speed auto trans I wanted to see if there was a retrofit or if anyone had successfully come up with a trans fix.

To be clear, my truck runs great, pulls like a train, but I think it "could" be better with a better trans or type of gearing.
That was the intent of my post.

If I can hit the bottom of a hill with momentum it will pull my trailer 70 MPH up a hill if I can keep it above 2500 RPM.
Its those situations I'd love to fix, like being able to go down a 1/2 gear instead of a 1000 RPM increase or drop. I usually will tow 70-75 MPH, but if there is no traffic I'll have no problem running 80. Its RPM management up and down hills I'd like to make better.

The swap to a lower rear gear like a 4.88 is an interesting thought, in that it makes it easier to keep it locked up in OD as opposed to switching up & down all he time as I manage hills. Just gear down enough so that I can run in OD all the time. Interesting thought.
Hell my mileage can't suck any worse than it does now, but I didn't buy the truck for mileage.

It seems like the answer to my question is that no, no one has come up with a whiz bang retrofit kit for a later 6 speed trans into older trucks.

 

The easy solution most went for was to upgrade to a 2005+ truck

I think your DRW is a Dana 80? It seems the gear choices are 4.30 and 4.88 (or even "lower", 5.13, or 5.38).

If 4.88 is too "low" - just put slightly bigger tires in the back

 

While you're in there, put a locker in it

 

With your current truck either a ZF6 swap or a gear vendors are the most viable options. The gear venders OD being the better option IMO, especially with slightly steeper gears. You get more OD at top gear and can split gears too. Even if you squeeze in a 6R140 in the truck you have a lot of work to do to get the module to work properly with your current PCM. Though since they were putting the V10 and 6R140 in the E-series maybe a PCM from one of them would work. Still going to be a pain. Though I will say the 6R140 really is not that impressive to me at least, my dad has one in his 15'.

 

When I had my 00 DRW V10 4.30 gears I was always wanting one more gear with better spacing, I considered a Gear Vendor unit but just couldn't get past the price. I now have a 6.2 with the 6 speed and love the transmission and would have loved to have one behind the V10, I almost bought a 2013 F450 but it only came with a 5 speed and XLT for the highest package in cab chassis witch was the only way to get a V10, so I feel your pain.

Denny

 

Nobody has, and I suspect nobody ever will. The electronic complexity is so great that it is approaching being an impossible task.

That's not going to help. The ratio change from OD to direct (4-3 in the 4R100, 5-4 in the 5R110) is absolutely identical. So is the change from direct to the next lower gear (3-2 in the 4R100, 4-3 in the 5R110.)

 

Thanks for chiming in Mark.
During my search phase I read MANY of your posts. I appreciate your input and all the info you have left in this forum.

Reading my above posts, would you have any input on what the next best option would be that is available to us?
Thanks again
jimmy p