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Should I trade my Ram?

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Old 04-20-2017, 06:11 PM
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Should I trade my Ram?

OK guys, here's the deal. I have a 2016 Ram 3500 I purchased last fall. Short story is, I was given some wrong information (forums) before buying it, and now I regret it. The truck is a PITA to drive thanks to the heavy reliance on computers...torque management and a dead pedal. The only reason I bought the Ram was for the manual transmission.

So now, I am considering trading it off to get back into a A truck popped up at a local dealership I am pretty interested in...BUT, I want some concrete information before I make the switch.

1: I see a button that turns traction control off on the dash...but is there still an underlying stability control system that prevents you from 'having fun' with the truck? (Advancetrac with RSC is what I see on the window sticker) For instance, can I still do donuts in the snow or in a wet field if I wanted to? Can't do it with my Ram...

2: I read where the headlights come on with the wipers. Can this be disabled? Also, illuminated entry. Can that be disabled? I don't want my headlights coming on unless I turn them on with the switch...period.

3: The truck I'm looking at has the manual floor-shift T-case. Is this still a manual T-case with a manual linkage, or does it still rely on electronic sensors to decide whether to shift or not?

4: With the 'manual' t-case and 'manual' hubs, can 2WD LOW still be achieved for maneuvering trailers in tight spots? Or do I need some aftermarket device like my Ram requires?

5: Any other underlying issues that won't be noticed on a test drive? Are there any other invasive "safety features" that the driver has no control over? How's the aluminum body doing?

I'm thinking about riding down this weekend and taking a look at it. I should be able to trade my Ram straight across for it. The Ford is a 6.2L Gasser. I don't need a diesel...biggest trailer I tow is a 10k equipment trailer with either a truck or a bobcat on it.






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Old 04-20-2017, 06:40 PM
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Looks like that truck does not have an e- locker in the rear as there is no dial. What is the gear ratio. If you haul a lot get the 4.30 gears! Or you will regret getting rid if diesel. I dont own one of these yet. Will be ordering in next 6 months. Gasser with 4.30 gears is best. I had a 2012 f150 that if you held the tc button down for 10sec it would disable all traction aids and you could let her rip. Tcase I am fairly certain is all manual. Most likely cable actuated. I would say yes on the 2low. I am sure others will chime in. I want to switch back to Ford also. Someday soon!

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Old 04-20-2017, 06:52 PM
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Looks like that truck does not have an e- locker in the rear as there is no dial. What is the gear ratio. If you haul a lot get the 4.30 gears! Or you will regret getting rid if diesel. I dont own one of these yet. Will be ordering in next 6 months. Gasser with 4.30 gears is best.
3.73LS. I didn't think lockers were available on the dually's...but then again, the SD's after about 2008 are foreign to me. I've been away for too long

4.30's are definitely what I want, however beggers can't be choosers. I rarely do any highway driving...90% of my driving is 40-60mph within a 40 mile radius of home here in the Appalachian Mountains. Gears (and a locker) can always be swapped in later for about the same price as it would cost to delete my current Ram (which I was about to do).

I came >< this close to ordering a 2015 F350 built nearly identical to this truck (but with 4.30's). I wish I would have now...


I am also >< this close to ordering a F450 C&C so I can have a V10. It's a much better engine IMO...
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Old 04-20-2017, 07:22 PM
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I would order what you want. I was going to order in 2015 and bought a ram. Look where I am at now. Its only 6-8 weeks and rebates are good here in Ohio on 2017s. I am sure they are good where you are too. Get the 4.30 gears in either variety of engine and good to go. Order a c&c and use the money that you would use for the gear swap or delete on a good truck body for the back.
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Old 04-20-2017, 09:01 PM
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I believe headlight on with wipers is the national law now, So I dont think that can be disabled in any vehicle any more. I know traction control can be turned off, but dont think RSC can be, I know something disables on mine, but only when in 4lo, id have to go look.
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Old 04-20-2017, 10:51 PM
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Some answers to your questions
1. Yes, traction control can be disabled, either off, one push of the button, or Sport Mode, which is two quick pushes. They allow you to do burn outs, donuts, full throttle control. I know cause I need to be able to be the one controlling the throttle.
2. Headlights are tied to wipers when on. This is a safety feature. Not a biggy. My truck is a lariat ultimate, so it has auto lights and auto wipers amongst other things. They work great.
3. And 4. Manual tease, manual linkage for the transfer case, so yes you are shifting it, therefore, with manual hubs, you can leave hubs off, and you still have 2 wheel drive low range for backing, pulling, without the front end binding.
5. I am at 8600 Km, no other issues. What trim level is the truck your buying, it looks like an XL or XLT? I would custom order to be sure Yalu get all the things you want. Otherwise you will be going up a trim level to get certain things and that means more cost.
6. That truck picture doesn't have the e-locker on the dash. I don't know if you can get them in a XL, XLT with a manual t-case for sure. So, this is why I say custom order.
7. I would echo others on here about axle ratio. If your getting a dually, gas motor, I would definately opt for the 4.30s, especially considering going from diesel to gas. Not being mean, but if your only towing the 10,000 lb trailer, why dually, or do you load the truck as well? It's not even going to notice it back there.....
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Old 04-20-2017, 11:17 PM
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Thanks for some answers! Keep 'em coming!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhoefer View Post
Some answers to your questions
1. Yes, traction control can be disabled, either off, one push of the button, or Sport Mode, which is two quick pushes. They allow you to do burn outs, donuts, full throttle control. I know cause I need to be able to be the one controlling the throttle.
2. Headlights are tied to wipers when on. This is a safety feature. Not a biggy. My truck is a lariat ultimate, so it has auto lights and auto wipers amongst other things. They work great.
3. And 4. Manual tease, manual linkage for the transfer case, so yes you are shifting it, therefore, with manual hubs, you can leave hubs off, and you still have 2 wheel drive low range for backing, pulling, without the front end binding.
5. I am at 8600 Km, no other issues. What trim level is the truck your buying, it looks like an XL or XLT? I would custom order to be sure Yalu get all the things you want. Otherwise you will be going up a trim level to get certain things and that means more cost.
6. That truck picture doesn't have the e-locker on the dash. I don't know if you can get them in a XL, XLT with a manual t-case for sure. So, this is why I say custom order.
7. I would echo others on here about axle ratio. If your getting a dually, gas motor, I would definately opt for the 4.30s, especially considering going from diesel to gas. Not being mean, but if your only towing the 10,000 lb trailer, why dually, or do you load the truck as well? It's not even going to notice it back there.....
The truck is a XL with the power group and STX appearance package. GN/5th wheel hitch, snow plow/camper prep, tailgate step, and a few other odds and ends. I like a basic truck. Keeps costs down and there is much less to potentially go wrong in the future.

I don't need a dually, but I do have the requirement that all my trucks either be regular cab long bed or ex. cab long bed. There's not too many options that aren't 4-door on the lots anymore. I do like the added stability of a dually while towing though. A flatbed may be in the distant future too.
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Old 04-21-2017, 12:33 AM
FmaxTurboSi FmaxTurboSi is offline
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I would not trade my cummins for a gasser!!!

I did get rid of my 14 megacab cummins for a 17 Platinum 6.7 however.
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Old 04-21-2017, 04:19 AM
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Order an F350 6.2 with 4.30's which come with the e-locker. My biggest regret of my last 6.2 after coming from 20 years of diesels was the not ordering a truck with 4.30's. My dealer wanted 3k to swap gears so instead I put that money towards the order of my current truck.
I ran a 2012 deleted Cummins G56 for 2 years and I miss that truck for everything except running around town.
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Old 04-21-2017, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATC Crazy View Post
1: I see a button that turns traction control off on the dash...but is there still an underlying stability control system that prevents you from 'having fun' with the truck? (Advancetrac with RSC is what I see on the window sticker) For instance, can I still do donuts in the snow or in a wet field if I wanted to? Can't do it with my Ram...

2: I read where the headlights come on with the wipers. Can this be disabled? Also, illuminated entry. Can that be disabled? I don't want my headlights coming on unless I turn them on with the switch...period.

3: The truck I'm looking at has the manual floor-shift T-case. Is this still a manual T-case with a manual linkage, or does it still rely on electronic sensors to decide whether to shift or not?

4: With the 'manual' t-case and 'manual' hubs, can 2WD LOW still be achieved for maneuvering trailers in tight spots? Or do I need some aftermarket device like my Ram requires?

5: Any other underlying issues that won't be noticed on a test drive? Are there any other invasive "safety features" that the driver has no control over? How's the aluminum body doing?

I'm thinking about riding down this weekend and taking a look at it. I should be able to trade my Ram straight across for it. The Ford is a 6.2L Gasser. I don't need a diesel...biggest trailer I tow is a 10k equipment trailer with either a truck or a bobcat on it.
1. Yes, you can. Low range shuts everything completely off. In 2WD or 4-Hi, you can quickly shut off traction control with a single press (no more throttle being cut off) and by holding for 10 seconds you can "turn off" stability control as well. It doesn't full turn it off, but makes it intervene only in extreme situations. It will definitely let you pull a donut in a snowy parking lot. A gas dually won't be doing burnouts, simply doesn't have the power.

2. The headlights will turn on 10 seconds after the wipers are turned on, and turn off 60 seconds after the wipers are turned off. No choice here. But it really doesn't matter since these trucks have day-running lamps which runs the headlights all the time you are in Drive. However, the Ford does not illuminate the headlights when you unlock the truck, like the RAM does. Just blinks the flashers and turns on the parking lights. There is also a program called FORScan (free, but requires a bluetooth OBD2 adapter) which allows a lot of programming changes. You could likely disabled day-running lamps and possibly disable the headlights on with wipers feature. Many of us here use FORScan.

3. The manual hubs / manual shifter combination you are looking at is truly manual. However, there may be a solenoid in the transfer case that prevents shifting into 4-low unless neutral is selected first. But when you pull the lever from 2WD into 4HI, you are truly moving a mechanical linkage and pulling the truck into 4x4. Nothing electronic other than a switch which detects this and puts a 4HI light on your dash.

4. With the manual hubs, you can leave them unlocked and put your truck in 4-Low to have extra power to move your trailer around in 2WD. Nothing else to purchase.

5. Not too many 'invasive' safety features. The seat belt light will flash and a chime will sound if you or the front passenger doesn't buckle up. Eventually, the chime will stop. There is also a way in FORScan to disable the chime. As we mentioned, stability control is *mostly* defeatable. These Fords are equipped with a "black box" which records a variety of truck parameters, such as speed, RPM, steering wheel angle, brake pedal input, etc. Nothing is *transmitted* but the info is continuously stored and overwritten. In the event of a crash, the last info frames are stored, and police can review what is on there to see what the driver was doing just before and at the time of the crash. The aluminum body is doing great, no worries there.

People have mentioned the lack of a locker...no locker is available in a Ford dually, period. Only an optional limited slip. Those of us who bought duallys seem to be fairly impressed with this limited slip. Previous versions have barely worked...this one seems to perform as advertised.

Although you're looking at a regular cab dually, which is lighter than an extended cab or crew cab dually...I'd still be wary of the 3.73 in a dually. Its a heavy vehicle. The 4.30 would be better. This truck will have an incredibly high payload, though.

Good luck.
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Old 04-21-2017, 07:32 AM
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How easy or hard is it to add upfitter switches and the LED headlights from the higher trim trucks to a XL?

I'm playing around with the build & price on Ford's site right now. Not sure if I want to go that route though...
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:17 AM
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I think I found your perfect Ford!


I do get it though. I like simple and don't feel I need a car or truck to do everything for me. But that's why I partake in AACA events and drive a Fiesta with crank windows and a manual transmission. I wouldn't lose thousands of dollars in order to gain a simpler truck. At some point, you could spend the money to restore and modify an older truck to meet your needs. There was an article I read years ago that talked about the pleasure of restoring an old truck to factory fresh for less money than it cost to buy a new one for light duty work. You could take the same approach for a 7.3 or something.
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by troverman View Post
1. Yes, you can. Low range shuts everything completely off. In 2WD or 4-Hi, you can quickly shut off traction control with a single press (no more throttle being cut off) and by holding for 10 seconds you can "turn off" stability control as well. It doesn't full turn it off, but makes it intervene only in extreme situations. It will definitely let you pull a donut in a snowy parking lot. A gas dually won't be doing burnouts, simply doesn't have the power.

Sounds good! Burnouts won't be happening anyways...but I do love to play when the precipitation starts falling. But the main point is...I want to be in control, not some computer.

2. The headlights will turn on 10 seconds after the wipers are turned on, and turn off 60 seconds after the wipers are turned off. No choice here. But it really doesn't matter since these trucks have day-running lamps which runs the headlights all the time you are in Drive. However, the Ford does not illuminate the headlights when you unlock the truck, like the RAM does. Just blinks the flashers and turns on the parking lights. There is also a program called FORScan (free, but requires a bluetooth OBD2 adapter) which allows a lot of programming changes. You could likely disabled day-running lamps and possibly disable the headlights on with wipers feature. Many of us here use FORScan.

With my Ram, I can enable/disable a host of features just by sitting in the seat and scrolling through the gauge display. The only lights that come on when I lock/unlock/open a door are the puddle lights, dome light, and cargo light. DRL's are a no-go for me. I will not buy a truck with them enabled. The lights on with wipers are very close to being a no-go as well. Thanks for the FORScan info...I'll have to check it out.

3. The manual hubs / manual shifter combination you are looking at is truly manual. However, there may be a solenoid in the transfer case that prevents shifting into 4-low unless neutral is selected first. But when you pull the lever from 2WD into 4HI, you are truly moving a mechanical linkage and pulling the truck into 4x4. Nothing electronic other than a switch which detects this and puts a 4HI light on your dash.

Great!

4. With the manual hubs, you can leave them unlocked and put your truck in 4-Low to have extra power to move your trailer around in 2WD. Nothing else to purchase.



5. Not too many 'invasive' safety features. The seat belt light will flash and a chime will sound if you or the front passenger doesn't buckle up. Eventually, the chime will stop. There is also a way in FORScan to disable the chime. As we mentioned, stability control is *mostly* defeatable. These Fords are equipped with a "black box" which records a variety of truck parameters, such as speed, RPM, steering wheel angle, brake pedal input, etc. Nothing is *transmitted* but the info is continuously stored and overwritten. In the event of a crash, the last info frames are stored, and police can review what is on there to see what the driver was doing just before and at the time of the crash. The aluminum body is doing great, no worries there.

The seatbelt is an easy fix. I wear mine, but I don't need the truck annoying me with it while driving around the yard or short trips.
Nearly every vehicle made in the past decade has a black box in it. Some models going back to the late '90's IIRC. I hate the idea...but unfortunately, that is something we cannot get away from.


People have mentioned the lack of a locker...no locker is available in a Ford dually, period. Only an optional limited slip. Those of us who bought duallys seem to be fairly impressed with this limited slip. Previous versions have barely worked...this one seems to perform as advertised.

Yeah, I didn't think the locker was available on the DRW's. I kinda want to stick with the DRW for the hydroboost brakes (SRW's get vacuum booster), and the (imo) better looks. I'm not too fond of the bed profile on the 2017 SRW's for some reason.

Although you're looking at a regular cab dually, which is lighter than an extended cab or crew cab dually...I'd still be wary of the 3.73 in a dually. Its a heavy vehicle. The 4.30 would be better. This truck will have an incredibly high payload, though.

Ironically, every modern vehicle I've owned has had 3.73's in it.
My previous truck was a '07 Dodge 2500 with the 5.7L Hemi, 3.73's, 5-spd Auto, and 34" tires. I pulled a '96 F250 Ex cab LB 4x4, 460 for a couple hours here in the hills and was fairly impressed with it. Never really got over 3000rpm but once or twice. Also pulled a '88 F350 4x4 7.3IDI with scrap metal in the bed and did well with that one too. Realistically, that's about as heavy as I'll haul. 3.73's would be OK for now, but I would definitely start a "4.30 w/ selectable locker fund"



Good luck.

Thank you
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATC Crazy View Post
How easy or hard is it to add upfitter switches and the LED headlights from the higher trim trucks to a XL?

I'm playing around with the build & price on Ford's site right now. Not sure if I want to go that route though...
The upfitter switches cannot be added to a 2017 truck. It used to be very easy and about $125 on the previous generation. But Ford says they cannot be retrofitted as before on the 2017. In reality, you probably could but the cost would be prohibitive. They are located in the roof now, and you would need a whole new roof console, and the harnesses and relays which are located elsewhere.

As for the LED headlights, there are people who have converted. You need a harness and the lights. I think the user is FDNY136 who is quite knowledgeable on this topic. Here is a thread that is helpful:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...en-to-led.html

As for cost, I'm thinking its in the $1-2k range? Keep in mind, that is only the headlights. On trucks equipped from the factory with LED headlights, that includes taillights, 3rd brake light, and license plate lamps as well.
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Frantz View Post
I think I found your perfect Ford!


I do get it though. I like simple and don't feel I need a car or truck to do everything for me. But that's why I partake in AACA events and drive a Fiesta with crank windows and a manual transmission. I wouldn't lose thousands of dollars in order to gain a simpler truck. At some point, you could spend the money to restore and modify an older truck to meet your needs. There was an article I read years ago that talked about the pleasure of restoring an old truck to factory fresh for less money than it cost to buy a new one for light duty work. You could take the same approach for a 7.3 or something.

I've had my fair share of older stuff. About a half-dozen 78-79 F150's and Bronco's, a couple '88 F350's, a '96 F250, a couple '84-'85 Toyota Pickups, '97 F150...a 1968 M35A2... Etc...

None of which I want to hop in and drive long distances in (family is 550mi away), not counting any vacations I may want to take. I've had my fair share of tinkering, building, modifying, etc all those trucks over the years...and maintaining them. It's the never ending little problems on the older stuff that I'd rather not keep dealing with. About 7-8 years ago I told myself I want one newer truck that I didn't have to worry about, that was reliable, and to use as a DD.
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