Found the vid. It was in the 7.3L thread discussing the CJ/CK oil.


Stewart

 

okay got some good news this morning my dealers going to submit it bottom end their report will say the engine was excellent taken care of no sludge deposits inside but, apparently it'll be two weeks for a long block . The dealer doesn't want to get into an oil war with shell my brother says that it's just because it's starting to poke its head in some of the 6.7s especially the utility class it's very rare that the pickups have this problem but it is occurring? First time I've heard of it. Once the truck is fixed I will be getting rid of it love it to death but that's enough going to try a new one probably order an 18 hopefully they'll be here before Christmas. I was shocked to learn that the new motor would only have a one year 12000 mile warranty ??? Considering this motor was nearly 50,000 miles I would still have 50000 miles and 3 years whichever came first now less than a month I hope it makes it till I get rid of it LOL without another catastrophic failure the sad part was the turbo was replaced a few months ago and now another new one will have to go on do the metal fragments through the system thought the oil filter would stop that apparently it shot too

 

That's Great News!!!

 

This is simply not the case. If it were true, then there wouldn't be thousands of post in hundreds of threads distributed among dozens of forums specifically in regards to Shell Rotella T6 and two other Rotella T(x) diesel engine oils.

The reason for these oft repeated discussions, and the reason TJC Transport's quoted premise is simply not the case is because in the very same Ford service advisory and position statement where Ford announced a new internal oil standard, Ford simultaneously stated that CJ4 oils remained compatible with Ford engines, and even went so far as to suggest that old stocks of CJ4 oils might be found in retail and distribution channels for up to a year following the date of the memo.

Therefore, in full reliance on Ford's advice that CJ4 rated oils are still OK, provided that the label does not also say CK4, the OP (and many others) relied on Shell's label which stated CJ4, and did NOT say CK4, even though the OP suspects that CK4 was actually in the bottle that only says CJ4, and no higher.

The OP's suspicions may very well be correct, because Shell previously (and proudly, at least initially) already admitted to pre bottling their new CK4 formulation in their new style bottles, but with labels that still only said CJ4, even the the content of the bottle was actually CK4. Shell admitted this, in writing (written transcript of Shell's road show introduction of the new oil to fleet customers), for at least two Rotella T product lines.

For the specifics, search my previous and relatively recent posts on the topic, that contain links to the original sources, and lots of pictures of bottles and labels and dates of bottling. Alternatively, follow Karl4Cat's posts on the topic. Rodney has a good handle on what transpired and when.

Shell modified the bottle shape and hue (color) in July/August 2016, and some Rotella T diesel oils bottled after the first week of August are indeed CK4 oils, even though the labels only say CJ4, because the API licensing agreement would not permit Shell to print the CK4 in the API certification donut until on or after December 1, 2016.

Licensing, and the API's permission to put CK4 on the labels on a specific date, perhaps so as to be fair to all oil formulators, were far more likely to be the reason why Shell changed the label to finally say CK4 "a short time later" (in December 2016) after Shell first began mislabeling new formulations of oil with previous API certifications beginning in early August.. And this move was likely planned long before Ford customers became up in arms over being misled.

Not only did Shell admit to putting CK4 oil in CJ4 bottles. Shell has also admitted that this practice is wrong... every time a Shell representative states that the certification you see on the label is the oil that you get. The OP reports that Shell said that to her or him. Most oil companies I've asked this question to say the same thing. It is not an unreasonable premise... that the API standard on the label is the same as the API standard of the actual oil in the bottle. Otherwise , how else would a consumer be able to put the right kind of oil in their motor, per the engine manufacturers instructions?

Which brings us back to Ford. In the memo, Ford specifically instructs that CJ4 oil, that was also originally specified in the Ford Owners manual, is still OK to use, as long as it isn't also CK4. The problem is, some of Shell's Rotella T oli labels only said CJ4, exactly like Ford said was OK, but in actuality, perhaps for processing cost savings, Shell had begun putting CK4 oil in said bottles for a 3-4 month period without disclosing this fact on the bottle.

So a purchaser, relying in good faith on Ford the information that Ford publishes, and simultaneously relying in good faith on what Shell printed on the bottle, may have unknowingly put the wrong kind of oil in their engine. This is not a question or a matter of the purchaser not following Ford's imstructions.

While Ford suggested that owners look for new oils that meet Ford's introduced standard, this applied more toward differentiating the CK4 oils that Ford DOES approve (because they also meet Ford's new standard), versus the CK4 oils that don't.

Ford specifically did NOT require that CJ4 oils also meet Ford's new proprietary standard, and Ford went on to suggest that consumers might still be able to find lingering old stock of CJ4 oil for up to a year. In fact, at the time of Ford's advisory, and for months afterward, not even Ford's own Motorcraft branded diesel oil had Ford's newest standard printed on the bottle. It merely said CJ4, which, according to Ford, was good enough.

So to suggest that the OP or anyone else is at fault for using oil that is only rated/ labeled CJ4, or to suggest that they are an "idiot" for following the printed instructions of both manufacturers, is not only non factual, it is also mean spirited. I not only disagree with your premise, but I also disagree with the attitude with which your premise is presented. I'd report your post, but seeing as you are already a moderator, I'll just say it here: calling people idiots isn't very nice, and isn't very becoming of a forum moderator. Nor does it set a very favorable example for us members to emulate in how we communicate and share a heads up on oil with each other.

 

I was waiting for you to find this thread as, you succinctly posted what I didn't have the patience to do earlier. Spot on...

PS: Tried to PM you but your mailbox is full....

 

I have two 2.5 gallon jugs of the Rotella T6 that is labeled as CJ-4 with no reference to CK-4 anywhere on the label. It has a manufacture date late Nov, 2016.

Based on what Y2KW57 said above, the oil in the bottle is probably CK-4 also. Therefore I should not be using it. Correct?

 

My bottles of T6 I posted on page one is Jan 2016. I'm good....but that was the last of what I had on hand. So running the dino oil now.

 

Jim, you are correct. Any of the new style bottles that say CJ4 only are likely CK4. I'd use it up in my lawn mower, snowblower, etc. but not my Ford....

 

I'm going to see if I can return it to Wal-mart then. I don't want to take any chances.

 

That's a tough one, and five gallon$ is a lot of synthetic to not use if it turned out to be OK. Here are a few reasons why, despite the November 2016 bottling date falling within that period between August 2016 and December 2016 when Shell admitted to mislabeling at least two types of Rotella T(x) diesel oils, I am still not certain about the 2.5 gallon T6.

1. The 2.5 gallon bottle was not featured by Shell at the same time as the new one gallon bottles were released. When Shell introduced the new style gallon bottles, Shell did so at the same time that Shell introduced the new oil formula (CK4) inside them. The 2.5 gallon size was not shown, and in the months following the new 1 gallon intro, the store shelves at Walmart and OReillys and the like still stocked the old style 2.5 gallon.

Perhaps the 2.5 gallon doesn't turn as often as the gallon size, so more old stock remained in distribution. Perhaps Shell determined to delay redesign of the bigger bottle. Perhaps the larger size is bottled at a different plant set up with the material handlingachimes and tooling to grapple the 2.5 size, and that equipment is different than the tooling and facilities to process the gallon size. I don't know the reason, but there was some latency between bottle sizes during the fall of last year.

2. I have only found where Shell admitted IN WRITING that Shell willfully mislabeled two types of Rotella T. (and I hesitate to say which two, because I can't remember off the top of my head, but I've posted the exact info earlier, within the last 60 days). So, say it was T5 and T3, just as examples. Well, T6 was not specifically cited in that transcript, so that leaves a little wiggle room for a tiny bit of doubt.

That doubt is shrinking though, as many more folks like the OP have visual compared the T6 oil from their older style (pre July 2016) bottles to T6 oil from the newest design bottle but still only labeled CJ4 (post August 2016, but pre December 1, 2016) to T6 oil from the newest bottle with the newest CK4 labeling. Their reports are consistent with what the OP is suggesting.

(And to suggest that the color of the bottle was influencing the color of the oil sample drawn certainly doesn't give the OP much credit, and I found that demeaning to the OP as well. I don't know the OP at all, and don't recall seeing his user name before, but I've typed this and previous post on a 10 year old tiny cellphone, it was so unnerving how two moderators belittled the OP's observations. It will be interesting to hear the results of the oil analysis, if the OP ever returns to share it. I wouldn't return though, if I were treated as he was. Reminding members about the rules is one thing, ridiculing is quite another.)

3. While not in writing, a representative from Shell verbally suggested/implied that all three flavors that Shell presented in the new style gallon size Rotellas on the presentation table, which included T6, contained CK4 formulation, despite the label only saying CJ4 until the API official release date effective December 1, 2016. And the rep from Shell said this proudly, as if it were a value added benefit for the fleet customer... Getting the new standard early.

So from what I've been able to ascertain looking at the information available, it is yet unclear to me whether or not the T6 in the 2.5 gallon bottles, date coded in the fall of 2016, with a label that only admits to CJ4... is really just CJ4 or CK4 in disguise.

Shell has already proven not to be above intentionally mislabeling their product, which naturally erodes consumer trust in How Shell identifies and reports certifications of their oils, particularly any of their Rotella oils. Even if their reasons for doing so were due to the API's license and labeling restrictions, Shell should have bit the bullet and put in the right stuff, even if it was the old stuff, and even if it cost more in production to accomplish.

Mislabeling the ingredients of any product violates the basic principals of the certification and process, and undermines the fundamental trust consumers expect to be able to have in a leading, global manufacturer who touts their compliance with regulations. Perhaps there was an FTC reg tucked away in there that they might have temporarily overlooked.

 

Well anyways thanks for some of the support and some of the stupid comments as usual on this site. I just wanted everyone to be aware of it who knows if it caused the spin out or not?? ford could use it against you , and yes I always make sure I use CJ oil I gave up onT 6 months ago when I realized it was the new CK oil. I now religiously used Valvoline premium blue 5 w 40 which is approved even if its CK oil it's on the list. I think another reason they're not fighting me if you check out some of my old post about the noise and how loud the engine was it was possibly eating its way through the block making it really loud unfortunately it destroyed the motor LOL I'm looking forward to a nice quiet engine again like when I first got it couldn't believe how loud it was getting it all makes sense now take care and thank you everyone

 

Good luck Radium. I hope you are happy with the 2018 when you get it.

 

Thanks got even better news today new engine will be here Monday way ahead of schedule can't wait to enjoy the quiet again LOL it's been one hell of a ride with this truck but I wouldn't trade it for anything other than 18 LOL. Was seriously looking at a Chevy and even the Dodge oh I'm sorry Ram but after all that I'll stick with the uncomfortable seats of the new F-150 I mean Super Duty I just can't help but wonder why they bother using these crank bearings that can turn like this I know I drove the truck hard and put a lot of miles on it and a short time it's a little depressing to think this could happen I was hoping it was just the oil and not Ford Motor Company fault oh well thank God for warranty take care

 

Hi Radium sorry if I missed it but what oil will go in the new engine?

 

Unfortunately some things were said by both sides that probably shouldn't be stated.

However, if you're referring to me and the color remark.... it's absolutely spot on. Go back and re-read radium's comment:

Of course ANY liquid would appear lighter inside of a lighter colored container. It's physics. When he broke the rule about discussing lawsuits is when I finally asked if he plans to sue over the color. It was in jest over a rule violation, with the intent to make light of the violation without coming down with a harsher slap on the wrists.

However, when the OP went on about these "deposits", as well as his ever changing story and interaction with Ford and the dealer, and also his deflection of "just research it", yes I pressed much harder. And yes I called him out on it.

Let's face facts, Shell did mis-label some of their bottles. I don't see anyone arguing against this. But at the same time the info being provided by the OP hasn't been the whole story. When he keeps changing the story, or tells people to just "research" his one-of-a-kind mysterious problem, you can see why there is going to be suspicion.