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1950 F5 COE Build

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  #31  
Old 03-31-2017, 10:55 AM
50COE 50COE is offline
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Getting the cab back on the frame...

You've seen where we had to modify the width of the frame to accommodate the Crown Vic front suspension... that means that the original COE cab subframe mounts/supports will need modified or completely fabricated. Pics:




Getting the COE cab subframe square and level with the base frame




this is a pic of the driver's side -- front support is newly fabbed -- you can just barely see the mods we made to the center mount





close up of the passenger side center mount - this is the original mount with mods to the bottom portion.




COE cab subframe now mounted perfectly over the modified base frame (Driver's side)





COE cab subframe with new front support and center support mods complete (Passenger side)
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Old 03-31-2017, 11:24 AM
50COE 50COE is offline
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Placing the cab over the much bigger engine...

Ok so the next photos will show where we set the cab initially on blocks because the new engine is MUCH bigger than the inline 6.

we had to cut the floor a bit to allow for the valve covers and top end.




Cab sitting on 3" of wood blocks -- you can see the screwdriver used for alignment




We had the same issues on both sides... this was the initial placement on wood blocks with the screwdriver used for alignment




this is a pic from the front looking back over the driver's side valve covers -- you can see we need to cut about 4" of floor and make a new cowl




similar issues on the passenger side...





measure twice and cut once... or was that cut twice and measure once...





Floor cut and cab now sitting in place





you can see about a 4" x 12" section cut out to accommodate the valve cover on the driver's side.




very similar cut out on the passenger side.
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Old 03-31-2017, 11:59 AM
50COE 50COE is offline
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Steering...

This was by far the issue that I thought about the most... from the beginning, I was concerned about how to solve the steering issue.

I actually went to visit a truck for sale where someone put a 48 COE on top of an early 90's F250 4x4 chassis. The steering column practically went straight down through the floor. I had to drive with my right foot on one side of the column and my left foot on the left side... they had the brake pedal on the left side and you had to two foot the thing... !!! I left that one thinking, "there is no way in hell I'm going to do it that way..." I think that experience started my concerns early.

With the cab in place, we held the steering column in place where it should be located and the base of the steering column was approx. 10" forward of the steering box on the Crown Vic suspension. I was pondering with the guys about how we could make a box using a timing gears and a timing chain... or possibly stack gears so that the input on top would transfer back to an output on the bottom about a foot or so further back... as it turns out, with most of the problems of this world, someone has already experienced this issue and designed, fabricated and sells a solution... Steer Clear makes an offset steering box that most people use for 32 Ford Hot Rods -- once you put the huge V8's in them, you need a short steering column, then drops down and a shaft comes out down low that you take out to your steering box... Well, this is going to work for me as well in a totally different application... Pics:




this is the original steering linkage from the Crown Vic lower section -- the left side mounts directly on the steering box. Check out the double joint.

This linkage proved to be useful on my build as well.




holding the steering column where it's supposed to go... measuring and deciding what to do next...




with the steering column where it's supposed to be, you can see we have plenty room for the gas and brake pedal where they are supposed to be

you can also see the progress on the cowl below... the floor will turn out fine with plenty space for my big feet and no wacky issues with pedal clearance and steering columns going straight down through the floor.

The magic box:

http://static.speedwaymotors.com/RS/.../8451000_L.jpg

This is the offset steering box that I'm using. I purchased the largest offset they had (16")






top side view from the front... not yet permanently mounted.





in place with fabbed mounts... there's barely enough clearance... but there is enough

You can see the DD joint coming out the top connected to the steering column and the shaft coming out the bottom that we used another DD joint to connect to the special shaft that came originally with the Crown Vic.




side view


You can see the steering column come down and connect at the top side and then you can also see the shaft coming out the bottom 16" back... that goes down to the steering box.

At this point, I felt like my biggest worry on the entire project was just solved.

Even though that offset steering box was $599... it works perfectly for my project and I'm sure a solution that the original designer hadn't planned to use it for.
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  #34  
Old 03-31-2017, 06:07 PM
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tinman52 tinman52 is offline
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Fitting the engine under the cab is one of the biggest hurdles with a COE.....especially if you want everything low. You are lucky to have the OE subframe, I didn't. My cab sits 4 inches above the frame rails.
Steering/pedals are another challenge....looks like you have that sorted. I made my build 10 times harder by using a manual trans and clutch pedal.
Keep the pics coming!
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Old 03-31-2017, 08:43 PM
50COE 50COE is offline
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Original Axles front & back are available for sale

I haven't posted these on the for sale list yet... but wanted to let anyone in here know that I have the original F5 front and rear axles for sale.

These have only 6,523 original miles on them.

I don't think the front brakes were ever used.

Single speed rear...

some of the pics:




rear OEM diff -- single speed




wheels and tires are clean tires are about 30 years old but have 90%+ tread




complete with leaf springs





all of the lower steering control arms & tie rods are also still in tact.




and original driveshaft 110" wheelbase<br/>


barely any rust on these parts... this truck spent the last 25 years in a barn...

Anyone have any ideas what I should be asking for these? should I break everything up or sell them as a set? Let me know your thoughts...

Thank you
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  #36  
Old 04-02-2017, 07:13 AM
50COE 50COE is offline
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Fitting COE cabs

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman52 View Post
Fitting the engine under the cab is one of the biggest hurdles with a COE.....especially if you want everything low. You are lucky to have the OE subframe, I didn't. My cab sits 4 inches above the frame rails.
Steering/pedals are another challenge....looks like you have that sorted. I made my build 10 times harder by using a manual trans and clutch pedal.
Keep the pics coming!

I still have the automatic trans linkage to figure out... but that's nothing compared to what you had to do... how did you solve your clutch linkage issue? I'm sure that wasn't easy!

If you sat the cab only 4" above the frame, that's about half the height of the OEM subframe height... I assume that made things even more difficult...

How did you deal with your steering solution?

It seems clear that every COE put over modern suspension or drivetrain is truely a custom solution... I think every one I've seen has been done differently.

Thanks for all the feedback,

Brian
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  #37  
Old 04-02-2017, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 50COE View Post
I still have the automatic trans linkage to figure out... but that's nothing compared to what you had to do... how did you solve your clutch linkage issue? I'm sure that wasn't easy!

If you sat the cab only 4" above the frame, that's about half the height of the OEM subframe height... I assume that made things even more difficult...

How did you deal with your steering solution?

It seems clear that every COE put over modern suspension or drivetrain is truely a custom solution... I think every one I've seen has been done differently.

Thanks for all the feedback,

Brian
Link to my build thread if you haven't seen it....
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...uck-build.html
Clutch linkage is basic rods and bellcrank setup, but space was an issue. My GM chassis has the steering box in front of the axle, which helped a lot.
Having the cab so low made space for everything a premium.....also made the engine intrude into the cab much farther.
I learned a lot of things NOT to do on the next one...
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  #38  
Old 04-02-2017, 09:55 AM
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Brian if you are thinking about cable linkage go to a boat supplier or boat repair shop. Most of what they have is stronger and better than what we find in a junk yard.Every different frame will present its own huge challenge. I'm glad to see you may of helped others with the steering solution.
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  #39  
Old 04-02-2017, 11:43 AM
GetItGoin GetItGoin is offline
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Just found this build after HAMB forum redirect. Thank you for posting, for the obvious effort to take such decent photographs and detail steps/process!

I love your comments more or less about sitting there for four or five months just staring at it. I imagine many of us have been there! I certainly am as I plan my 47 COE project. Like yourself i have researched/studied others builds to gain the confidence to proceed with mine; to simply make even some small decisions. And... I am pleased to read another contributors words that the inherent steering issue is probably unique to each and every COE project. Certainly a crazy number of solutions out there!

So... nice to know I am following similar process to my my dreams and again, THANK YOU!
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  #40  
Old 04-02-2017, 03:26 PM
50COE 50COE is offline
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the HAMB redirect...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GetItGoin View Post
Just found this build after HAMB forum redirect. Thank you for posting, for the obvious effort to take such decent photographs and detail steps/process!

I love your comments more or less about sitting there for four or five months just staring at it. I imagine many of us have been there! I certainly am as I plan my 47 COE project. Like yourself i have researched/studied others builds to gain the confidence to proceed with mine; to simply make even some small decisions. And... I am pleased to read another contributors words that the inherent steering issue is probably unique to each and every COE project. Certainly a crazy number of solutions out there!

So... nice to know I am following similar process to my my dreams and again, THANK YOU!
Thanks for the comment... I'm relatively new to posting... and wasn't sure where to post at first. I thought to myself that it would fit right in with people on HAMB... little did I know that they claim to be a bunch of "purists"... as soon as someone figured out I was using a modern engine, they deleted my posts and sent me pack'n...

To my pleasant surprise, the Ford Truck Enthusiast site ended up being the perfect home for me. My F-350 has "No Bailout Edition" on the front fenders & Tailgate...

I actually find that posting info for others to see is actually almost therapeutic.

thanks again
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  #41  
Old 04-02-2017, 04:13 PM
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I find the HAMB to be kinda hilarious in concept. They are purists about modifications. Think about that.

I personally like stock best and put a lot of time and thought into attempting to keep my Fords looking "like Henry built them". I don't have a lot of money to put into that attempt...

However, I appreciate quality craftsmanship as long as it isn't absurd. I just don't understand show only cars that really can't be driven. Your truck is coming along nicely and I really appreciate the documentation you provide for everyone.
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  #42  
Old 04-02-2017, 05:37 PM
50COE 50COE is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 38 coupe View Post
I find the HAMB to be kinda hilarious in concept. They are purists about modifications. Think about that.

I personally like stock best and put a lot of time and thought into attempting to keep my Fords looking "like Henry built them". I don't have a lot of money to put into that attempt...

However, I appreciate quality craftsmanship as long as it isn't absurd. I just don't understand show only cars that really can't be driven. Your truck is coming along nicely and I really appreciate the documentation you provide for everyone.

I really appreciate those who like things exactly how they came off the assembly line. The great thing about cars/trucks is that you can make them your own. with something as simple as a pair of fuzzy dice to complete customized vehicle from the ground up. Follow your passion is my best advice to anyone.

I also wanted to let everyone know that I will never say that I'm a master mechanic; master truck builder or even an "expert" on any of the things we are doing. So far, I'm super happy to have a few others helping me on things that I'm truly not the expert... it also give me a chance to bounce ideas off of a couple other guys on the spot and hear other's opinions about what I'm about to do. So far, I really feel like I'm on the right track and feel confident that we will have a fabulous "driver" when we are done.

thanks again for all your comments!
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Old 04-02-2017, 06:49 PM
GetItGoin GetItGoin is offline
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"Follow your passion is my best advice to anyone." --- The wisest of words!

I taught photography courses for years and had worked as a pro/supervisor in still and video for for a decade also. I learned from viewing my students/staff "genius" that one should capture that first image that attracted you to stop and take an image... then get creative! Do not corrupt the attraction without good cause!

Yes, I reread the HAMB mandate just the other day and wondered if once I do start more concrete physical building if my own project will meet that group's criteria of what can be posted? I am definitely going to be maintaining the cab's patina and even some dents and "damage" (my wife fell in love with her [named the COE after my Mom] wrinkles and creases at 3 o'clock in the morning when I woke her to show her what I had brought home!). I will be completing rust restoration, but blending paint back in to weather it to the faded and worn pattern on now. There will be mods, my Flathead engine is definitely modified as an example (Yup... part of that original attraction, so ignoring all of the small block advice) and the box/bed is morphing beyond what is there now to fill my perceived needs and tastes. So... while a "custom", does my game plan describe a Rat Rod which I believe HAMB will not tolerate on their build post/forums?

Still, a wonderful group of posters at HAMB and certainly many willing to share their experiences and ideas. I have learned so much from reading/following some of that group's individual's projects.

But this old gal has earned her gorgeous character after many years of duty and throw in the original striking art deco appeal of a 47 Ford COE and you have a work of art that we are passionate about saving.
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  #44  
Old 04-02-2017, 08:23 PM
50COE 50COE is offline
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I'm starting to get caught up with my progress...

Ok...

I've posted:

* Finding the truck
* thinking about which way to go with it
* demo
* Frame prep
* Front suspension (Crown Vic)
* First stab at the rear suspension -- soon to be completely redone.
* Getting the cab back on top of the frame with the new engine in place
* Steering

There are still tons of things to do inside the cab and out... but I am going to post pics and information about the bed.

I started looking for fenders for a 48-50... not an easy to find -- even for me and I've told people that I can find absolutely anything I found a number of examples in various condition. I didn't want to use fiberglass fenders ... I want the truck to be all steel. It seems like any decent fenders cost between $300 - $400 each and almost always require some level of bodywork to repair rust, dents or other imperfections. Since I'm not good at body work, I bit the bullet and drove out to Springfield, OH to the "Early Ford Store" and bought new stamped 16 ga. steel fenders and 8' bed components.

I decided my COE pickup needs at least an 8' bed because I think the proportions would look out of line with a standard 6 1/2' bed. The bed I have will be 8' long (line an F-2) but the standard width like an F-1. I am doing this because I didn't really want to tub out the bed for wider tires. The standard fender can accommodate a 12" wide tire if you have an accurate offset. The overall width of my COE cab & front fenders is approx. 8" wider than the standard width of my bed and fenders (without modification). We will be adding 3" to each of the rear fenders - with the hopes that I can buy a set of rear wheels made with the exact offset that I need so that I can fit a 15" wide tire under the rear.

Pics of the bed progress:





yes... I drove to Springfield, OH and back in one day. about 6 hours each way ...





this is the first time we set the box on the frame... just on blocks.

We played with the height of the box for a while before finalizing the measurement above the frame to the bottom of the bed cross members. .




fabbing up the stands for the crossmembers

The bed is attached in 4 areas: Front edge; 2 cross members evenly spaced and rear edge. The cross members that I purchased are angled slightly because they were made to sit on an original F-1 truck frame which rolled up an over the rear axle. so we had to make the cross member stands replicate the angle.






cross members now sitting in place.





side view of the front center cross member





front edge and front center cross member -- note the string line to keep everything straight

We welded the carriage bolts in the cross member -- I did this because I don't want the "out of round" washers and bolts on the surface of the finished wood bed.

Also note that after we get everything done, we will disassemble everything to get it ready for paint -- and when we re-install it, we will use 1/4" rubber under each mounting point to reduce vibration etc.






Rear rail and rear center cross member

Note that I haven't cut the rear frame sections to perfect length yet.

We will also have to rework the entire rear suspension next as well.




Installing the outside edge boards first -- boy that really stiffens up the bed sides.




wood working also required





I finished cutting / fitting each of the wood runners first. Note the stainless steel strip at the back.





first two stainless steel strips in place... only 5 more to go.






I cut each of the stainless steel strips long enough for the end to slide under the rear Stainless steel finish strip. See how I used a grinder to take of the necessary material.





this is the same strip now tucked under the rear finish strip...





this is how I accurately ground the ends -- by placing a short cut on top exactly on the line and using a relatively new / clean grinding wheel.





almost forgot to weld the front bed section to the front cross member... my good friend Mark... this is a pic from his best side...





all pieces in ... just snug - not permanently tightened down.

Notes:

The outside runners have a larger lip on the outside to accommodate the fold of the bed side. on the second wood runners from each side, I had to route out the back for the welded carriage bolts that I had mentioned earlier. The center three are identical.

I haven't intentionally peeled any protective layer off the stainless steel. We still have to completely dismantle this to get it ready for paint.




front section complete





Rear section complete


Once I get the paint samples done -- we are painting samples on some spare hardhats that I had -- they will be perfect to see the color on curves / in the light... at that point, I'll determine what stain to use and then finish with many layers of poly -- I'll be looking for something possibly marine grade.
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  #45  
Old 04-02-2017, 08:37 PM
Effies 56 Effies 56 is offline
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Very nice documentation on a solid COE truck build! You found this about 2 hours east from me! Nice find! Will be watching!
Regards,
Chris
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