1988 E150 5.0 AOD 138-WB Mark lll conversion van.

Last July I rebuilt the complete front end on my van and noticed I had a good bit of positive camber after I was finished. I had read that the new coil springs would settle some after driving a while. I have put over 5k miles on the new suspension and the springs don't seem to have settled much, if any.
I bought a new set of tires just before rebuilding the front end and have already had to rotate them once. All four tires are probably worn a bit over half on the outer edge. Another 5k and they will need to be changed.

Rather then having the I-beams bent right now, I am thinking at this point to reinstall the old springs to try to get more mileage out of the tires. If I remember correctly the front wheels were pretty much straight with no visible negative or positive camber. The old springs had a tag on them with the original Ford part number but I can't make out ll of the numbers so I believe them to be the original springs.

There was one thing I know that I did wrong during the instillation and that was to add the rubber coil spring insulator on top of the old original spring insulator. The insulator is only about 3/16 thick and I don't think 3/16 would give me this much visible negative camber.
I did not remove the old insulator because you have to remove the lower spring seat itself to remove the old insulator. The new ones are these and just slip over the top of the metal spring seat and are laying on top of the old insulators.
More Information for MOOG K160043

If I removed them and left the new springs I believe I will still have positive camber.

When I installed the new axle pivot bushings, I snugged the pivot bushing bolts down, placed 8x8 wooden blocks under the front wheels and lowered the weight of the van down on the wheels before torquing the bolts to spec. So I don't believe there is a problem at the i-beam pivot bushing end.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated..

I just had a thought.. If the original springs had sagged a little and the PO had a front end alignment done,perhaps they bent the I-beams to fix the positive camber and that is why the new springs appear to be too high now?

PS the new springs are these Moog CC824
http://www.moogparts.com/find-my-par...50%20Econoline

 

I bet your issue is with the REAR springs. Maybe all four springs settled a little too far over the years and then when you replaced the fronts- the sagging rears are causing rearward weight transfer.

Also I believe that extra spacer could be adding to it more so than you think.

 

I edited my original post because I have too much positive camber, not negative.. The tires are tilted outward at the top.

I understnad what you are saying about the rear sagging. Last week we took our old 77 chevy truck and had a 1/2 ton of gravel loaded on it and I was glad I had a helper riding in the front seat to help hold the front wheels on the ground.
I am not sure that the rear springs are sagging. I know I need to replace the bushings and shackles but the rear doesn't appear to be sagging, at least with no load and I know that the front end is up about an inch or more after putting the new coil springs in. New bushings and shackles should raise the rear a little by tightening everything up back there.
If the front were lowered an inch, the rear would actually be a bit higher, empty that is.. I have never looked at the van while it was full of people though. I have had 8 adults in there though at times, probably 1,000 lbs with some junk behind the rear seat and that might be an issue.

I did call Moog today and learned a valuable lesson. Their find your part website (as well as RA's site) show the correct coil springs to be the CC824 which is what and why I ordered them. After talking to the tech guy at Moog, he told me that in his catalog, not the web site page, it showed part #CC822 wold fit which he said would lower the van about an inch because the spring rating is a about 300lbs lower when compressed. So that along with removing the spacer like you suggest might set it at the right height.

I also called a truck spring company and that guy said that rear springs need to be replaced anywhere from 60k to 100k, humm. I could see that if you were hauling heavy loads every day. The rear springs on the van are not stock e150 cargo van springs because when I bought the correct stock bushings last summer, they would not fit. Either the van was ordered from Ford with heavier rear springs or the conversion company changed them.
The spring code on the sticker is 3 P is that means anything to any one...
The GVRW is 6100
the front GVRW is 2945 lbs and the rear is 3406 lbs
Humm if you add the front and rear you have 6351 GVRW..

The problem I have now is that Walmart only has a 90 day return/exchange policy on the springs and said to call Moog. I called Moog and they said to call Walmart!. The second call to Moog though I was told to send a email explaining the situation to the woman's manager. Once I get a reply back from Moog, I will let you now how they handle it. Moog has a 3 year guarantee though this is not about workmanship. It is about their find your correct part website showing one part while tech support shows a different part.
When ask why I didn't notice the problem right off the bat I explained what their tech guy said. The new springs will settle a little after driving and the fact that after 8 months and 5000 miles the tires are still wearing on the outside. I took it for an alignment but they only set the toe-in because I wanted to let the springs settle before thinking about bending the I-beams.. We already discussed that subject and I would rather not go that rout if it can be adjusted through spring height.

I may yet wind up replacing the rear springs though as you suggest.. You have more experience with hauling weight around town all day and know how these vans do. Normally if hauling people around the children are in the back with the adults in the front and middle seats. That should pretty much even the weight as the rear bench seat is over the front half of the rear wheels.
Another issue is that I do a lot of short runs where I am parking and backing out of tight spaces turning the wheels all the way to one side or the other which leans the tires in..

How much higher should the rear be then the front? This is with the new springs under it.

 

Well it looks dead level there.

We have two, a 1990 and a 1989 and they both eat tires on the corners. If you watch as someone else backs out, that tire lean will shock you for sure.

I hope you cure it, I'll copy cat your solution.

 

Well i had around 1000 lbs in the van today and the rear end went down a little and it looked like the front end was a bit higher.

So thinking..
If the front end was down about an inch the camber would probably be ok.
I have a set of helper springs under my 85 I could use..
I need to change the spring bushings as well as the spring shackles. If I am going to go to all the work to change the bushings, it would probably be better just to buy new springs that come with the bushings already installed..

Plus on top of that, I have a vibration between 60 and 70 coming from the rear end. I have read that if the bushings and springs are worn, it may tilt the rear axle and cause a vibration. I forgot the proper name, the angle alignment between the transmission and rear axle.. Pinion angle?

 

Your just out of balance, After 5 years all E owners should think of spring replacement like a oil filter at 5k. Been there done that, you are tipping up in the front, sagging in the rear. That also plays havoc on the braking I bet,, about 30% less and less controllable. You have to replace all the springs at one time to get a matched set. Doing the rears will shift the weight forward again pushing the fronts back down to stock position, then balancing the brakes.
Don't take my word for it, go put yourself on a scale, pay the 8 bucks and see what weight is resting on each axle. Then compare that to door sticker, there is the math.
If you get it right, it will handle/brake better than a brand new E and squat in brake turns level. If you get it wrong the front brakes will pull the nose down.
It kinda reminded me of an old adage, if one can sharpen a chain saw sharper than stock, one can do the same thing to the E in handling, even at ten years old.
They are just 3 rusty pieces of spring steel, treat them like an oil filter @ 5 years or 80000 miles. you have served me well, but good ridens.

 

man I am with you here!
springs wear out. I almost replaced my springs recently. Leaf springs are pricey. For my specific van it was About $350 from an advertiser here (ATS springs) on FTE (excellent customer service). And a set of Moog front coils is $100 from Rockauto. I found out later that ATS also sells coils.

Thats $500+ of springs. I know it's the right thing to do but I just couldnt talk myself into that cash flow...

anyway, yes- springs wear out and I agree with you.