Dropped by the only local Ford dealer today. They have a sizeable amount of F350s on the lot. None of them have a traditional window sticker, just a small sticker that states "Dealer asking price." The srw F350 I briefly looked at stated a dealer asking price of just over $71K.

Is the "Dealer asking price" a con, and how much real world wiggle room is there on that price?

Any insight is greatly appreciated.

 

That seems bizarre. I thought they were required to display the window sticker and MSRP, but can have those side stickers with add on's. I never seen a new vehicle that didn't have the window sticker displayed, unless it was just taken down for a test drive or something.

 

-Absolutely everything you hear or see at a dealership is a con/sales tactic. Most dont know or believe this for some reason.
-Start your convo with the sales guy by saying you saw the same truck for XXXX$ less over at Crazy Charlies Ford Dealership.
-Know what its worth before you go in, compare other dealer prices. Dont let them know about your trade until you have negotiated the price..THEN throw the trade into the loop otherwise they will dick around with the numbers to make your trade # look good.
-Get your own pre-approval for financing from somewhere else and let them know that you have your own financing.
-If they ask how much you owe on your trade-in tell them that doesnt matter right now.
-Lowball them by about 10% of asking price then see what they come back with. If you dont like the number get up and walk out. If there is wiggle room they will stop you from walking out and make you a better offer...this is usually there best offer.
-January is the best time of year for deals in New England. Dealerships are hungry for sales numbers

 

Agreed. I've never seen that. How do you know what you're buying? I'd run from that dealer.

 

The Federal Automobile Information Disclosure Act requires that the Monroney (window) sticker be affixed to the motor vehicle. If your dealer won't disclose it, then one option is to record the VIN from the car (take a smart phone picture) and then use the VIN to download the VIN from Ford. Your dealer's website may have more info about the vehicles, including links to the window stickers.

Or, just head to another dealer. I like the dealer I'm using: His website links every new vehicle on his lot to a pdf of the window sticker. His price (for a special order) is invoice plus tax plus tag fee less applicable rebates.

HTH,
Jim / crewzer

 

They can print out a sticker for you. I had them do it on a couple trucks and fax them to me.

Some dealers are sleazy. I think I'd find another one.

 

I would probably start my interaction with them using a phone call to ask when the window stickers will be re-attached, per federal law. Each vehicle is a separate violation with it's own penalties. Just Google The Federal Automobile Information Disclosure Act Title 15

You can't begin negotiating until you know exactly what you are buying. An example, does it have rapid-heat? It's not something where you can look for a button or see it attached.

That sounds like a dealership that will also have installed Scotchguard, undercoating, window etching, and wheel locknuts for an outrageous price.


1231. Definitions
For purposes of this chapter—
(a) The term “manufacturer” shall mean any person engaged in the manufacturing or assembling of new automobiles, including any person importing new automobiles for resale and any person who acts for and is under the control of such manufacturer, assembler, or importer in connection with the distribution of new automobiles.
(b) The term “person” means an individual, partnership, corporation, business trust, or any organized group of persons.
(c) The term “automobile” includes any passenger car or station wagon.
(d) The term “new automobile” means an automobile the equitable or legal title to which has never been transferred by a manufacturer, distributor, or dealer to an ultimate purchaser.
(e) The term “dealer” shall mean any person resident or located in the United States or any Territory thereof or in the District of Columbia engaged in the sale or the distribution of new automobiles to the ultimate purchaser.
(f) The term “final assembly point” means—
(1) in the case of a new automobile manufactured or assembled in the United States, or in any Territory of the United States, the plant, factory, or other place at which a new automobile is produced or assembled by a manufacturer and from which such automobile is delivered to a dealer in such a condition that all component parts necessary to the mechanical operation of such automobile are included with such automobile, whether or not such component parts are permanently installed in or on such automobile; and
(2) in the case of a new automobile imported into the United States, the port of importation.

(g) The term “ultimate purchaser” means, with respect to any new automobile, the first person, other than a dealer purchasing in his capacity as a dealer, who in good faith purchases such new automobile for purposes other than resale.


PENALTY:
(c) Removal, alteration, or illegibility of required label
Any person who willfully removes, alters, or renders illegible any label affixed to a new automobile pursuant to section 1232 of this title, or any endorsement thereon, prior to the time that such automobile is delivered to the actual custody and possession of the ultimate purchaser of such new automobile, except where the manufacturer relabels the automobile in the event the same is rerouted, repurchased, or reacquired by the manufacturer of such automobile, shall be fined not more than $1,000, or imprisoned not more than one year, or both. Such removal, alteration, or rendering illegible with respect to each automobile shall constitute a separate offense.

 

I just simply would not do business there. What else are they hiding?

 

The Monroney sticker is required to be affixed to the side window or windshield of every new vehicle sold in the United States and can only be removed by the consumer (Chapter 28, Sections 1231-1233, Title 15 of the United States Code). The sticker MUST list all the pertinent information for the vehicle, not just their asking price. Every one of those trucks had a Monroney sticker when it arrived at the dealership. They've removed them. If you ask to see the sticker, they must provide it, but they already have broke the law by removing them, so what's to stop them from breaking it again and not showing it to you. I would seriously go to another dealership.


Here's some reference info; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monroney_sticker

 

I wonder if we are getting the whole story . Maybe they had moroneys, but a price attached above it, or maybe a big price on the windshield. I know a local dealer that does the flat rate price on the window on new cars and its on the windshield the regular sticker is on side windows.

 

I don't think Ford would even let a dealer remove the stickers.

 

Based on a sample size of 5 vehicles it seems markup is roughly 15%. So you take MSRP minus 15% and you have what dealer is paying to get the truck.

Ford will have dealer incentives which will give them cash back based on goals sperate of this. Exactly what they are differs.

Where I got these numbers is from dealing with a new truck purchase. Then a trade back for a Lemon then repurchase at cost. Confirmation from Ford Canada customer representive that I was getting the truck at cost but they did not provide the numbers. Dealer did.

 

Every truck has a sticker and an invoice, the invoice price is where you start, then subtract rebates, and if the dealer wants they can dig into their hold back but doubt it!! Real simple easy as that!!

 

Many, many years ago we were shopping for a new car, that was popular at the time. One dealer
we went to had an additional sticker added that said "additional dealer profit". When I asked about that
they were so arrogant and confident, that they weren't even open to any negotiation. I bought my next new car from a different manufacturer.

 

Based on my experience, I disagree with a lot of this...

There are normal every day hard working people at dealerships. Yes there are bad apples, but most are decent enough. Not everything is a con.

That doesn't affect anything unless the customer has brought in a worked on deal, or at least has a VIN where the dealer can compare line-by-line to see if they are the same vehicle, or if they are equipped differently.

Sales consultants know that customers can and do lie at times, and this is one very common lie used by customers. It's also super easy to spot the lie if you haven't actually gotten a price quote from the competing dealer. Why? Because these guys often times know how the other dealers negotiate deals, and have a good idea of what pricing they will see at other stores. They see it on almost a daily basis. So walking in there with a number pulled out of thin air will immediately raise suspicion, and you'll probably not be treated well.

Yes comparing vehicles at other dealers is definitely a good thing. However, not informing the sales rep of your trade until after price negotiation doesn't help you get a better deal. It only lengthens the sales process. Plus the sales consultant probably asked early on if there's a trade. So if you told them "no", then suddenly you try to surprise them with a trade, you have lost their trust and most likely they won't treat you as well as they could.

Dealers should show you the actual sales price of the vehicle you're buying, and the total amount they are giving you for your trade. The only way they can "dick around with the numbers" is if they hide those from you.

When you see an offer, every penny should be on the dealer's offer sheet, including dealer fees, add-ons, etc. Check them line by line to make sure they are accurate and you agree with them. If there's something you don't agree with, point it out.

Absolutely yes. I agree 100%.

Furthermore, you can use this information to possibly get a better rate. Dealer F&I departments can shop rates and perhaps beat your best, which only saves you money.

Once again, this will only increase the wait time at the dealership. At some point they have to find out your payoff amount. If you have a trade, they can appraise it and find out how much you owe while you are working other portions of the car deal. Far faster and a much smoother process if you are up front about your trade.

This is not a very good negotiation tactic. What is a better tactic is to understand the available rebates, and research the invoice price (easy to do these days with plenty of online tools). Most people can negotiate the vehicle down to invoice (before rebates), which is what I would consider to be a good deal.

But just asking for 10% off in most cases is an absolutely unreasonable offer, because there isn't anything remotely close to that for dealer profit on a new vehicle.

Used vehicles you might get lucky trying that tactic. However, there are far better negotiation strategies to use that would be more successful.

Again I disagree. Dealer sales can vary month to month. If a particular dealer is having a record January, then they aren't exactly hungry for making better deals.

Furthermore, rebates and incentives can vary throughout the year. Sometimes January's might be a terrible time for incentives, and waiting a few months might result in significant increases in rebate offerings.

Or sometimes the rebates are better at the beginning of the year. You just don't know. Rebates and incentives for the next period are always kept under tight wraps. Even dealers don't know until right as they launch.