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Possible causes for empty HPOP reservoir? !?!

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Possible causes for empty HPOP reservoir? !?!

  #1  
Old 01-01-2017, 01:11 PM
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Possible causes for empty HPOP reservoir? !?!

Reasons for empty HPOP reservoir on a 99 7.3?

Just swapped the engine in less than 500 miles ago. Plowed with it once. Drove to work twice.

Came home from work at midnight last week and decided to cold start test it at 7*. Started up. Kinda dieseled for a second like they do, then evened out and idled fine for like 7 min. I was shoveling snow and heard it start sounding like it was running out of fuel.

Figured it was gelled up. Nope changed filter, all liquid, plugged it in, nothing.
No ICP at cranking code.
Changed ICP Still nothing. Put manual gauge on head, nothing. Good oil level so I pulled the plug on Reservoir and it's bone dry.

When engine was out 500 miles ago it got new Injector orings, GPs, Cups; oil cooler, Melling LPOP, Morroso Pan, etc etc. Pretty much every seal and orings except Head gaskets.

Only two things I can think of if pickup tube and Faulty LPOP.

Anybody have any suggestions?
Can't believe a new LPOP went out already and I know I secured the hell out of the pickup tube.
 
  #2  
Old 01-01-2017, 02:08 PM
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There is an "oil return circuit" with a check ball that will return oil to the pan from the LPOP Res. Hoever I have no idea if it could drain the HPOP Res. faster than the oil pump can fill it though.
 
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Old 01-01-2017, 02:16 PM
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Let us know what you find. The pick up tub wasn't cracked was it? I'm sure if it was you would of replaced it. But it dose happen. Do you have oil pressure on your gauge?
 
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Old 01-01-2017, 10:30 PM
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No, Dash Gauge shows nothing which is at the Res correct?


Nobody telling me what I want to hear here...lol

Anybody have an idea on where check valves are? Under VC?
 
  #5  
Old 01-01-2017, 10:34 PM
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I found this. Looks like one is in Oil filter Housing

Lubrication System : Low Pressure | Power Stroke 7.3 Liter Diesel Engines

The Power Stroke 7.3 Liter Diesel engine lubrication system is comprised of a low-pressure system and a high-pressure system. The low-pressure system provides primary engine lubrication while the high-pressure system provides the hydraulic pressure required to actuate the fuel injectors.

The low-pressure lubricating system draws oil from the engine oil pan through the oil pump screen cover and tube into the oil inlet passage in the front cover. The gerotor oil pump then pumps the oil back out through the outlet passage in the front cover.

The oil separates into two paths.

One flow path sends oil into the high-pressure pump reservoir initial fill gallery (integral to the cylinder block) and through the anti-drainback check ball. During cold start the oil feeds in two directions from the anti-drainback check ball. One feed leaves the check ball and enters the front cover. From there it enters the high-pressure oil reservoir. The second feed exits the check ball and enters the left bank valve lifter oil gallery.

After leaving the front cover outlet passage, the second oil path sends the oil through the oil cooler and filter assembly. Once inside the filter housing, the oil filter bypass valve may open to vent excess pressure and oil back into the oil pan. After the oil has been circulated through the oil filter, the oil feed then enters the main oil gallery (integral to the cylinder block). Once in the main oil gallery, the oil is routed to the five crankshaft main bearings through five drilled and machined feed galleries (integral to the cylinder block). The five camshaft bearings receive the oil feed through five vertically drilled and machined feed galleries connected to the main bearing feed galleries. The front main bearing feed gallery also supplies oil to the right bank valve lifter oil gallery through a vertically drilled and machined oil feed gallery (integral to the cylinder block). The rear main bearing oil feed gallery also supplies oil to the turbocharger assembly through a vertically drilled and machined oil feed gallery (integral to the cylinder block).

Pressurized oil entering the turbocharger assembly is utilized to lubricate the compressor/turbine shaft. The oil drains back through the turbocharger mounting pedestal and back into the oil pan. The valve lifter oil gallery supplies pressurized oil to the valve tappets and to the piston cooling oil jets. Oil from the valve tappets is routed upward to the cylinder head valve train through hollow push rods. Once in the cylinder head, the oil drains back to the oil pan through return ports at each end of the cylinder head.
 
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Old 01-01-2017, 10:42 PM
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They're talking about the one up top, not in the filter housing. It sits in the top of the block behind the reservoir to the right side of the fuel bowl. 3/8" ratchet (extension necessary) fits in it. Due to the angle of things it is tough to get the treads started for reassembly and IIRC I used a wide bladed screwdriver to get it started. Clean all of the loose debris from the surrounding area before disassembly, you don't want it to fall into that hole. Under the plug and the spring is a ball, you can snag it with a magnet. I use a set of grabbers to get it back in there without losing it to the valley. Look for dirt stopping to ball from seating. It looks like there is an O ring down there but I wouldn't want to have to replace it, it's down in there pretty far.
 
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Old 01-01-2017, 11:33 PM
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Copy all that. Will pull it in the morning. I have one more day off work to get it goinf then the cold is back.

IIRC?
 
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Old 01-02-2017, 08:00 AM
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The check valve does one thing - prevent the oil from draining out of the HPOP reservoir when the engine is not running. While the engine is running, that check ball is wide open because the LPOP is shoving oil up through it.

A bad pressure regulator on the Low Pressure Oil system (near the oil filter) can starve the HPOP, or an issue with the LPOP can do it. You really need to see your LPO pressure in a bad way.

Even with a dead-open HPO hose, the HPOP can't outrun a working LPO system.
 
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Old 01-02-2017, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Haggs21 View Post
IIRC?
IIRC=if I recall correctly.
 
  #10  
Old 01-02-2017, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tugly View Post
The check valve does one thing - prevent the oil from draining out of the HPOP reservoir when the engine is not running. While the engine is running, that check ball is wide open because the LPOP is shoving oil up through it.

A bad pressure regulator on the Low Pressure Oil system (near the oil filter) can starve the HPOP, or an issue with the LPOP can do it. You really need to see your LPO pressure in a bad way.

Even with a dead-open HPO hose, the HPOP can't outrun a working LPO system.
Where would I check LPO Pressure besides the Res Hole?
 
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Old 01-02-2017, 01:06 PM
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The HPOP reservoir is under full LPO pressure, so you can put a tee on the EOT or EOP pressure sensor (for the dash) for another sensor, or use the HPOP reservoir plug with an ORB to 1/8"NPT adapter.


 
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Old 01-02-2017, 04:39 PM
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If the engine oil gets too low, the LPOP can not supply the HPOP with enough oil to operate. Sometimes folks get oil leaks and run the motor low on oil and this is a result of that. Have you pulled the dipstick?


Never mind, I see you already did that in your 1st post.
 
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Old 01-02-2017, 05:08 PM
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If the dash gauge shows nothing, I would think you have a LPO pump problem. Not just the check valve.
 
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Old 01-02-2017, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Tugly View Post
The HPOP reservoir is under full LPO pressure, so you can put a tee on the EOT or EOP pressure sensor (for the dash) for another sensor, or use the HPOP reservoir plug with an ORB to 1/8"NPT adapter.


Tugly there is no pressure because there is no oil in LPO Res.
 
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Old 01-02-2017, 11:59 PM
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No Oil Flow into Res

I wanted to see what was actually happening inside under the Res Cover so I removed the top cover and put some bolts back in to hold the lower seal and it in place. I cranked it for about 2x 30 second rounds before getting a small amount of oil to flow from this port and it just spills over into the port under it. It gurgles and gurgles as the level slowly falls back down this port for the next 30 min.

I could **** more flow than this. I then removed the checkball on top of engine and Inspected. Looked normal to me but what do I know. Beside from what I understand its open during operation anyways and primarly used for antidrainback of the res while sitting but it was right there so why not inspect.

I drained the oil hoping to use my bore scope through the oil pan plug to confirm the pickup is still on but couldnt see a thing.

I was able to remove filter and manually get a pick in the valve in the housing and it moved freely somewhat but without knowing how much it should move Idk,

Got cold and dark and going to rain for three days so I pulled the block heater and let the coolent out. It will be all drained and ready for me in a few days when I have time to pull cooler to inspect the valve in the backside of the filter housing.










 

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