Adding a vacuum motor to the snorkel flapper
#46
I'll fly with that. The above pictured blue/white VDV was part number D6AZ9E897B. Replaced D6AZ9E897A, Which replaced D5AZ9E897A. Marked D6AE-B1A. Then D6AZ9E897B was replaced by D8AZ9E897A. Which is still blue/white.
The original D6AZ9E897B part number fit Dentsides:
1976 F100/350 360,390.
77/79 F100/350 351M,400.
78/79 E-F100/350 302,351.
And a myriad of cars.
The companies below show as having the D8AZ9E897A.
Haven Ford
(620) 465-2252
xMidway Ford Company
651-636-8200
xGreen Sales
(800) 543-4959
xRPN Parts
888-864-9305
xManderbach Ford
610-929-3683
The original D6AZ9E897B part number fit Dentsides:
1976 F100/350 360,390.
77/79 F100/350 351M,400.
78/79 E-F100/350 302,351.
And a myriad of cars.
The companies below show as having the D8AZ9E897A.
Haven Ford
(620) 465-2252
xMidway Ford Company
651-636-8200
xGreen Sales
(800) 543-4959
xRPN Parts
888-864-9305
xManderbach Ford
610-929-3683
#47
I appreciate the brainstorming here.
From what I gather, the white TVS used in this way already has a temperature-activated one-way valve inside it. It keeps vacuum applied to the hot-air door when it is really cold, like under 50F. It locks it closed, until over 75F. Then the TVS provides vacuum flow as the heat goes up. ( Question: Then at 90F, it stops the vacuum from being applied ??? ) The hot door has no vacuum and stays open all the time.
The bi-metal ACTS already controls the source, but not the amount of vacuum pulled on the TVS. On mine, the issue is that it allows too large a vacuum bleed, and is creating a big vacuum leak. It needs a restrictor to limit the amount of vacuum leak. (Maybe mine is old, and leaks too much?)
Perhaps I'm being dense here, but a VDV vacuum delay valve wouldn't be useful in this configuration, unless it is shown to also provide a high vacuum restriction.
Does it?
Further, it is being used upstream of the 'bleeding' ACTS, and so it wouldn't be valuable at all for this setup, at least not in that position.
I see it used in the (deleted) pictures above, where the TVS and ACTS are used in the 'other/second' configuration. So, not one after the other, but on separate control runs. ('73+ and EGR setup?) Note that I did not set mine up that, 'later', way. Check out the routing of my green hoses.
Still need a restrictor pill, me 'tinks.... (Edit: answer in image below, 0.015 - 0.030" red or blue color codes in several devices.)
From what I gather, the white TVS used in this way already has a temperature-activated one-way valve inside it. It keeps vacuum applied to the hot-air door when it is really cold, like under 50F. It locks it closed, until over 75F. Then the TVS provides vacuum flow as the heat goes up. ( Question: Then at 90F, it stops the vacuum from being applied ??? ) The hot door has no vacuum and stays open all the time.
The bi-metal ACTS already controls the source, but not the amount of vacuum pulled on the TVS. On mine, the issue is that it allows too large a vacuum bleed, and is creating a big vacuum leak. It needs a restrictor to limit the amount of vacuum leak. (Maybe mine is old, and leaks too much?)
Perhaps I'm being dense here, but a VDV vacuum delay valve wouldn't be useful in this configuration, unless it is shown to also provide a high vacuum restriction.
Does it?
Further, it is being used upstream of the 'bleeding' ACTS, and so it wouldn't be valuable at all for this setup, at least not in that position.
I see it used in the (deleted) pictures above, where the TVS and ACTS are used in the 'other/second' configuration. So, not one after the other, but on separate control runs. ('73+ and EGR setup?) Note that I did not set mine up that, 'later', way. Check out the routing of my green hoses.
Still need a restrictor pill, me 'tinks.... (Edit: answer in image below, 0.015 - 0.030" red or blue color codes in several devices.)
#48
I'll fly with that. The above pictured blue/white VDV was part number D6AZ9E897B. Replaced D6AZ9E897A, Which replaced D5AZ9E897A. Marked D6AE-B1A. Then D6AZ9E897B was replaced by D8AZ9E897A. Which is still blue/white.
The original D6AZ9E897B part number fit Dentsides:
1976 F100/350 360,390.
77/79 F100/350 351M,400.
78/79 E-F100/350 302,351.
And a myriad of cars.
The companies below show as having the D8AZ9E897A.
Now after all of this most are long obsolete. There has to be an aftermarket source for most of these.
#49
http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sh...alve/ford.html
Guess they are available aftermarket.
Now all you need to do is cross reference the SM identification/application chart to the MPC and then to the Vendor PN Interchange...
#50
The actual calibration(s) of most valves are given in the appropriate shop manual(s). The trouble is the Service PN's (or Engineering) are not given, the valves and calibrations are identified by color code. One would have to cross the color codes to valve PN's in the MPC.
Now after all of this most are long obsolete. There has to be an aftermarket source for most of these.
Now after all of this most are long obsolete. There has to be an aftermarket source for most of these.
#51
Those VDVs are for use after the point where a restrictor is needed. (Edit: Wrong. They have a restrictor in them. So they can be used close to the intake manifold vacuum source. )
I have no shop manual(s) with these parts.
If anyone finds the restriction value that is given for a part nearest the intake vacuum source fitting, by all means post it. It should look like 0.022" or something similar. (Edit: See image below. Blue and Red devices work, at 0.015 and 0.020" respectfully.)
Still looking for a ballpark restrictor size value. It sounds like the Orange version may have had the smallest/slowest restriction, but this was an anecdotal comment by a forum member, and no size was given. (Edit: answer in image below, 0.015 - 0.030" red or blue color codes are the smaller sizes, and available in several devices.)
Some ideas:
The turbo guys have this same issue, so many 'restrictor pills' are available. I'm sure we need not pay those kinds of prices, this isn't a crucial function.
Adjustable plastic valve to limit air flow (vacuum), $10 plus shipping, looks like a good solution.
Only goes 0 - 0.027" equivalent.
Poweraire - F-2822-20-B90-DB - Variable Needle Valve Restrictors | Coast Pneumatics
Glass beads from a craft 'bead shop', at ten cents each. Will experiment with the smaller hole sizes. ( Got some, But won't be able to work on it for a while ). There is something called a 'bead reamer' that might work on softer material than glass, and may be handy for experimentation.
Dorman makes this, but it is only available in 0.0185" size. It could be enlarged, if that is needed. Notice the brass restrictor in the end of a normal barbed vacuum hose junction. Is a hair large, but probably a good, and inexpensive solution.
P/N 47311, under $5 :
https://www.ford-trucks.com/g/picture/7955954
I have no shop manual(s) with these parts.
If anyone finds the restriction value that is given for a part nearest the intake vacuum source fitting, by all means post it. It should look like 0.022" or something similar. (Edit: See image below. Blue and Red devices work, at 0.015 and 0.020" respectfully.)
Still looking for a ballpark restrictor size value. It sounds like the Orange version may have had the smallest/slowest restriction, but this was an anecdotal comment by a forum member, and no size was given. (Edit: answer in image below, 0.015 - 0.030" red or blue color codes are the smaller sizes, and available in several devices.)
Some ideas:
The turbo guys have this same issue, so many 'restrictor pills' are available. I'm sure we need not pay those kinds of prices, this isn't a crucial function.
Adjustable plastic valve to limit air flow (vacuum), $10 plus shipping, looks like a good solution.
Only goes 0 - 0.027" equivalent.
Poweraire - F-2822-20-B90-DB - Variable Needle Valve Restrictors | Coast Pneumatics
Glass beads from a craft 'bead shop', at ten cents each. Will experiment with the smaller hole sizes. ( Got some, But won't be able to work on it for a while ). There is something called a 'bead reamer' that might work on softer material than glass, and may be handy for experimentation.
Dorman makes this, but it is only available in 0.0185" size. It could be enlarged, if that is needed. Notice the brass restrictor in the end of a normal barbed vacuum hose junction. Is a hair large, but probably a good, and inexpensive solution.
P/N 47311, under $5 :
https://www.ford-trucks.com/g/picture/7955954
Last edited by 1972-34ton; 08-20-2017 at 09:40 PM. Reason: Update for answers below.
#53
Dorman 47311? That is a Dorman version of what I posted in post #43. I quote myself:
One thing that just hit me was part number D7AZ12A225B. It was a vacuum restrictor. Looked just like a vacuum hose straight connector only had a orifice made inside it. Back in the emissions horror days Ford (and Ford tech with a problem child) used it in line to the vacuum advance. To slow down the vacuum signal so the vacuum advance didn't change the advance as quick.
D7AZ
12A225B:
Haven Ford
(620) 465-2252
xGreen Sales
(800) 543-4959
xRPN Parts
888-864-9305
xManderbach Ford
610-929-3683
__________________
One thing that just hit me was part number D7AZ12A225B. It was a vacuum restrictor. Looked just like a vacuum hose straight connector only had a orifice made inside it. Back in the emissions horror days Ford (and Ford tech with a problem child) used it in line to the vacuum advance. To slow down the vacuum signal so the vacuum advance didn't change the advance as quick.
D7AZ
12A225B:
Haven Ford
(620) 465-2252
xGreen Sales
(800) 543-4959
xRPN Parts
888-864-9305
xManderbach Ford
610-929-3683
__________________
#54
KULTULZ, you da man! Exactly the data I was looking for.
Good to know the sensitive range is 0.015 - 0.030 inch. ( 15 to 30 thousandths )
JAFFFAFA, yes, and the blue value you mentioned before is just the ticket.
Now, I'm not convinced a VDV is needed in addition to the white TVS I happen to be using already. The white TVS has a temperature sensitive one-way check valve already.
These suggested Ford parts may have a filter in them, which will be needed at some point. That may be important. If anyone has a broken or plugged one, do crack it open and check for us!
For my particular project it looks like a blue or red D7AZ12A225B barbed restrictor would be adequate. A 12A145 in blue or red values might be better, and worth the extra price.
As a cheap-skate, perhaps the right restrictor bead with the right sized hole will do the trick.
This is a slow-acting system that need not respond quickly.
The additional vacuum leak through a .020" restrictor would not require a jet change, I'd guess. (Edit: WRONG, too large a leak.) It might be welcome after the temps come up to 90-100 in the intake.
Good to know the sensitive range is 0.015 - 0.030 inch. ( 15 to 30 thousandths )
JAFFFAFA, yes, and the blue value you mentioned before is just the ticket.
Now, I'm not convinced a VDV is needed in addition to the white TVS I happen to be using already. The white TVS has a temperature sensitive one-way check valve already.
These suggested Ford parts may have a filter in them, which will be needed at some point. That may be important. If anyone has a broken or plugged one, do crack it open and check for us!
For my particular project it looks like a blue or red D7AZ12A225B barbed restrictor would be adequate. A 12A145 in blue or red values might be better, and worth the extra price.
As a cheap-skate, perhaps the right restrictor bead with the right sized hole will do the trick.
This is a slow-acting system that need not respond quickly.
The additional vacuum leak through a .020" restrictor would not require a jet change, I'd guess. (Edit: WRONG, too large a leak.) It might be welcome after the temps come up to 90-100 in the intake.
#55
Size-of-restrictor to influence vacuum controls
This is a text summary for orifice sizes:
Color Speed Size-of-restrictor
Blue - Slows a bit - 0.015" and provides Anti-flutter
Red - Some control - 0.020"
Orange - Light control - 0.024"
Yellow - Quick - 0.030" Very Light control
I'm sure your vacuum source value would influence the decision, and the 'speed' comments are just relative to each other.
(A later real-world test indicated that a restrictor with 0.0185 orifice still created a fairly big vacuum leak in this setup.)
Color Speed Size-of-restrictor
Blue - Slows a bit - 0.015" and provides Anti-flutter
Red - Some control - 0.020"
Orange - Light control - 0.024"
Yellow - Quick - 0.030" Very Light control
I'm sure your vacuum source value would influence the decision, and the 'speed' comments are just relative to each other.
(A later real-world test indicated that a restrictor with 0.0185 orifice still created a fairly big vacuum leak in this setup.)
Last edited by 1972-34ton; 10-21-2017 at 11:33 PM. Reason: Edited for real-world testing.
#56
A Cold Weather Modulator Valve is used in addition to the A/CL BIMET Sensor in some applications.
This has been discussed before.
Just FYI-
#58
No Worries KULTULZ. You are posting some great documentation, we will figure it out. Thank you! It is good to see something from the factory manuals about all these components. Info on check valves, bleed filters and others will benefit someone.
For others wondering what that last post was all about, I am using the white TVS (in pictures) for flapper control, not the body-colored versions for other kinds of cold air compensation. He is right though, the white TVS also has these qualities, as seen in 1a above. Mine tests as described. However, this part traps the vacuum leading to the flapper when cold. So it must be upstream (flap side) of the ACTS (A/CL BIMET Sensor), and would not be useful as a restrictor when used at that point.
Color-coding is getting a little confusing at this spot in the thread. Restrictors have color-coding, and so do CWMVs. Not necessarily the same in all cases.
Now, on the downstream side, nearer the vacuum source at the manifold, my recycled ACTS (A/CL BIMET Sensor) leaks so much in the hot position that it causes a significant vacuum leak. (Not sure if that is normal.) That is why I'm working on limiting the draw through this leg, with a simple restrictor bead, and maybe an inexpensive vacuum line filter. The cost difference is ten cents :vs: $35 plus.
Trivia: My particular metal part, the one that breaks the vacuum with a bimetallic spring, ACTS (A/CL BIMET Sensor), has a 'red' paint mark.
Not sure if it is original, it might even be a stray scratch from something else, and I don't think it is faded pink or brown. Not sure.
Question: Am I wrong in calling the A/CL BIMET Sensor an 'ACTS' in this non-egr, and non-distributor control configuration?
I saw it called that in a catalog. (EDIT: Answer, yes it is also called an ACTS in early descriptive materials. But there are two types, as noted. 9E607)
For others wondering what that last post was all about, I am using the white TVS (in pictures) for flapper control, not the body-colored versions for other kinds of cold air compensation. He is right though, the white TVS also has these qualities, as seen in 1a above. Mine tests as described. However, this part traps the vacuum leading to the flapper when cold. So it must be upstream (flap side) of the ACTS (A/CL BIMET Sensor), and would not be useful as a restrictor when used at that point.
Color-coding is getting a little confusing at this spot in the thread. Restrictors have color-coding, and so do CWMVs. Not necessarily the same in all cases.
Now, on the downstream side, nearer the vacuum source at the manifold, my recycled ACTS (A/CL BIMET Sensor) leaks so much in the hot position that it causes a significant vacuum leak. (Not sure if that is normal.) That is why I'm working on limiting the draw through this leg, with a simple restrictor bead, and maybe an inexpensive vacuum line filter. The cost difference is ten cents :vs: $35 plus.
Trivia: My particular metal part, the one that breaks the vacuum with a bimetallic spring, ACTS (A/CL BIMET Sensor), has a 'red' paint mark.
Not sure if it is original, it might even be a stray scratch from something else, and I don't think it is faded pink or brown. Not sure.
Question: Am I wrong in calling the A/CL BIMET Sensor an 'ACTS' in this non-egr, and non-distributor control configuration?
I saw it called that in a catalog. (EDIT: Answer, yes it is also called an ACTS in early descriptive materials. But there are two types, as noted. 9E607)