These days rebuilt starters and alternators get Chinese sourced repair parts, and in some cases, there are containers of sourced parts shipped to Asia for rebuilding. I don't trust them at all myself. Having worked for a company that moved some of it's factories to China, it was hard enough to get new, OE parts up to the quality standards needed. They can do it, but it costs, which is why some industries are now moving to lower cost India.

So for me, I can go to a salvage yard or hunt on eBay for a totaled truck that has low miles and by looking at the images or the removed part see that it is an OE component. If your not up for that task, then my secondary is to get a Ford Motorcraft remained part. Ford has been particular about the rebuilds compared to the retail auto parts store. I have a Ford reman starter in my truck and it's has been flawless for years. But if you're going to Autozone, Advance, O'Rileys and unfortunately even NAPA today, I'd be keeping the warranty receipt in the glovebox. I personally don't trust them based on my own past experience and what I read on forums. Lifetime warranty is great if you don't mind flipping parts.

 

yes... China parts well known reputation even in my line of work. Flipping parts with low grade china new/rebuilds well known but I haven't experienced that more recently, hope its a thing of the past with all the lifetime warranties seem the company's would otherwise go broke?

The old joke was that one rented diehard batteries... continuous revolving door until they offered the Diehard "Platinum" which reportedly was made by Odyssey, now a disappearing breed at Sears. Replaced Ford OEM which were going tired after 5 years with the Platinum and at last battery check showed still strong after 7 years during last years winter @-19F real temp.

Has anyone open up any of these newer OEM or aftermarket starters noticing differences in material and armature wiring technique to get higher torque in a compact format? I've notice that a lot of the HO alternators have switch materials and gone with square wire to build HO compact alternators?

My truck came equipped with the dual factory alternators option so keeping the Platinums well charged has not been a issue. I've seen the capacity budgets presented here but still don't see the concern for opting to three battery approach along with the cranking voltage for the FICM assuming the batteries are not on the way out to begin with. I would have to dig up my old data but I believe the FICM started cutting back around 9V input but otherwise its working pretty hard (drawing higher current) at the lower voltage to convert the 12V to 48V. But in any case the test experiments I performed seemed to suggest their was little heating effect during typical crank duration and higher current draws one would encounter during cold start which was assisted by the lower temps and cooling the power FETS. The real problem that I saw was poor soldering and the low break down voltage rating for the components (power FET'S and capacitors) used on the regulator board especially at high under hood temperatures. When considering the basic fact that the FICM was mounted on a vibration table(6.0L PS engine), WHAT A PERFECT HASS/HALT test environment... let the user pay the cost of experimental design!

 

I'm with jack on this. For the price of a used oem starter off a wrecked truck you can't really beat it. I have no doubt it's life of service will far exceed that of a remaned unit from the local box store.

As an update, mine is still running strong! With Jacks cabling updates, and two fresh batteries she starts in a heartbeat, even with only one or two functioning glow plugs 7,000 miles, one year, and at least 4-5 starts per day 5 days a week

 

For the retailer, almost no cost. Some even have it set up that warranty return shipping is not on their dime. If they can get you to their door for $2 cheaper, once they get the profit dollars they will flip all day. Plus maybe you get yourself thinking the problem is your batteries, additional sales. Or something else. And your most likely to head to that store for things the next 5-10 years until you've had enough.

Right now it's still cheaper for me to re-lease batteries every 2-3 years then buying two Odyssey for 5-7 years.

 

You guys have it soooo easy in the temperate zones . Try that trick with starting on one or two glow plugs up here in the the north where we can get -35F real temp with bio20 diesel. When I was in college I used to run my diesel Rabbit that way until it got cold, then I had to replace the burned out plugs, never start in the cold like that.

Yes I understand the cabling point but my cabling is still OEM on my F350, starts at -35F on it own with BIO20 fuel sitting outside with ALL glow plugs functioning although I still do not like the way the 6.0PS sounds (like shaking a large can of marbles) even with synthetic oil at that temp.

Yes ...I had to rewire ALL the high current OEM cables on my Cruze TD with wire #2 welding cable to get the alternator to perform properly in charging the battery with GM's new RVC charging system!!

My basic belief is that I want my vehicle to start by design 24/7 outside no matter what nature throws at it in the environment I use it in, not just by chance

Back when Track Auto was still around I ended up going thru three alternator before finally getting a good one... notice they are no longer around. For now I factor in my time and reputation/experience of the re-builder in establishing which way I go, generally I prefer my own rebuilding when I can (available parts i.e. my own FICM rebuild) because of my general philosophy that I only want to do a job ONCE!

If I can discern and/or see quality that is the general direction I will follow. The F350 is still up for grabs as my expectation was 500K trouble free miles when I bought my FIRST Ford, after all it was advertised as "SUPER DUTY" or at least that is what it says on the wind shield. Back when the "bat wing" company was designing/manufacturing engine controllers for Ford you would never see the lack of quality the way you do in the OEM FICM design!

 

Just noticed some of the members here appear to have used the 6.7 starter instead of the 6.4 starter on their 6.0, was there any particular reason for this as the pricing seems similar, is it just a matter of local availability?? I have purchased new parts from ebay and amazon with good luck. But would be very hesitant in purchasing anything used from these sources due to the simple fact you just don't know what is being sold or the true condition/source but also due a bad experience I had on ebay in buying a used scope. Ebay would not stand behind the buyer for what was a clearly documented fraudulent sale but paypal did stand for the buyer once ebay refused to do anything!!

Regarding the changing out of the 6.0 starter to a 6.4/6.7 starter, the 6.0 starter has an extension on the end of the shaft is this because there is a recess in the bell housing for it to fit into in order to keep the slider gear in better alignment with the fly wheel gear? Where as the 6.4/6.7 has a recess in the gear, is that due to the bell housing have a plug which fits in helping with the gear alignments? I thought I read on another forum that the 6.0 will not work on the 6.4/6.7 engines? On an earlier post, this topic, it seems that one member was having a fairly bad gear whine when engaging the starter, I was wondering whether this was due to a gear alignment issue because the 6.0 shaft extension is not on the newer 6.4/6.7 starters? I guess I need to pull the starter to see whats, what on these designs as to compatibility before ordering.

 

Best change of getting a lower mileage unit, it just requires a different lower bolt and bushing for the bellhousing hole. The lower bolt is the only difference between the 6.4 and 6.7.

The cabling I proposed in my vid was for rebalancing the batteries so they are tasked evenly during the starting event. Other then cleaning the connections, that first version change does not do much more, nor was it intended to. Do we have a major issue with the starting cable layout -no.

 

On the surface I understand the application difference of the smaller bolt on the newer 6.7 model but does this imply (maybe even recall in order) that the 6.4 (with larger bolt) had a problem with the ear breaking off due stress of less metal in the area as other posters have suggested?

Sorry I missed your dissertation on cables but it is worthy to note your documentation on other topics appear fairly complete. If you could help a 4 eye old man out and point me in the direction on the topic I would be interested in reading. Its a good thing these older models didn't have systems like GM RVC to raise even more havoc with simple battery charging. Balanced or unbalance the OEM cables seems to have kept Ford's OEM and now Odyssey batteries going for a fair number of years in external -35F to +102F temps. Can't even say that the FICM failures are attributed to any unbalance in battery cables, yes but I understand the OCD aspect where on my Cruze TD the finer points of improper cable gauge drove me and the Cruze RVC system craze. If I let the voices I hear direct me, I would shoe horn in two GS 31 Odyssey AGM batteries and 500 Farads of ultra super capacitors. Talk about pure POWER!!

 

The 7.3, 6.0 and 6.4 all had in-service issues with the larger bolt loosening and falling out over time. But the torque spec for it is the same as the smaller diameter bolts, my conclusion is due to the pull-out torque limitations of the aluminum threads. The torque is too low for proper bolt stretch to maintain retention. I believe engineering after a decade+ got the hint and altered the screw size since 6.7s don't seem to have dangling starter syndrome.

I think this is in this thread, but I'm not going back through all the pages.



Cables



The cables do OK, but many of us experience the trend of the pass batt going before the drivers, so while I used current flow the underlying issue is really resistance and voltage drop. I just thought current flow would better get the point across.

Other then that I'm way behind on more electrical vids.

 

TooManyToys... ha,ha,ha; very scholarly videos, you must have too much time on your hands!

I can not say that I can relate to either of the two points you make though. I am the only one that has put a wrench to my truck since new (12 years and 177K mi) so I can say that the larger bolt on the starter has never come loose nor was it ever touch with a wrench until now that the starter failed. Is the torque spec for the two different size bolts a Ford spec or is it a SAE spec based on bolt size and tread? But I attribute lack of loosening to be problem due to ILL use of way to much salt on their roads.

Every year, before winter, I hook my batteries (disconnected and individually) to a battery tester and do not see any appreciable difference in capacity between the two.

It would be interesting to view your thoughts on the FICM grounding you reference in your other video your are working on? It is my opinion that F350 grounding was handle better then my Cruze TD though. Although I believe I will need to start chasing grounding ghosts due to the level over corrosion I've seen on my truck in the last couple years and from the issue that the ALT light does not go out for a delay period where normally it would go out right after the engine kicked off (off topic) .

I guess all the 6.4/6.7 starter converts are convincing me to go ahead with the starter update, I just need to prove for myself that the 6.0 shaft extension has no practical function? Also I'm still interested if anyone has disassemble the newer starter and witness any newer techniques (i.e. square wire) in armature winding and materials increasing efficiencies?

The view below is through the starter mounting hole from which it can be seen that the 6.0 starter shaft extension does not have a recess to mate with. This leads me to believe that my concern that the extension might be keeping the pinion gear in better alignment with the flywheel gear was not correct. Therefore I will attempt the replacement with a 6.4 starter on my 6.0.

 

Actually, not enough time.

Then your good. When you get more powerstroke history here you may see the trends. As an example, including comments from a resident Ford mechanic.


https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...of-engine.html

 

No joy here ...but in my 40 years as hobbyist mechanic, rebuilding engines, transmissions and general car/truck mods/repairs I have never seen a starter mounting bolt loose whether two or three bolt. With posting on many forums, this is the first for hearing of loose starter bolt other then sloppy work by factory and/or mechanic. With all the road salt we use in IL I think I would anti-seize on all of them torquing to spec, never had a one come loose.

Maybe this is just a Ford thing as this has been my first and only Ford purchased? What is that old meaning for the F.O.R.D. acronym ?

 

In short simple terms the starter transplant was a success, installed the 6.4L starter in my 6.0L this evening. And yes I think with a little practice this is a 10 minute job assuming no corrosion issues to attend in the removal process.

My decision was to use a rebuilt 6.4L starter from a local retailer # 6675S. Why you ask... it was readily available, suited the intended purpose, cheaper then 6.0 OEM from a dealer, purchased from a local retailer I can work with, and most important... backed by a lifetime warranty and lastly appeared a clean quality unit!

The 6.4 advantage over the 6.7 ... direct bolt on replacement and no screwing around making a custom spacer and bolt which is worth $$$$$$$ in my time and not my intent to make the repairing of my F.O.R.D. vehicle a life time job but just to keep it running as the front window decal implies a "SUPER DUTY" but yet to be proven.

Yes, the 6.4L starter (with two seven year old Odyssey GS 65 AGM behind it) sounds as though it cranks a 6.0L engine way faster then the original 6.0 starter, in fact like the original but speed related on steroids!

Was it the wrong thing to do, at this juncture I don't see any negatives. If I have some time I may hook up my meters to get some base data on the 6.4 starter in a 6.0 application for future reference. Unfortunately my 6.0 starter simply took a dump so I will have no base data to compare. We'll see how the starter fairs over the upcoming months and this winter then make a final decision on whether it will stay in?

This is the starter I used, I know you all are saying LOL on rebuilt but time will tell:

 

@TooManyToys. I read over the thread and did not see any mention of what class/grade the replacement bolt needs to be for 6.7 bolts. Is grade 8 fine? I plan to use some purple loctite.

p.s. I picked up a low mileage oem 6.7 starter to swap in. I plan to upgrade my battery cables at the same time according to your previous videos.

 

The metric won't be grade 8, in metric 10.9 will work fine.