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OK, so...
In the last two days, I've learned a couple of things:
1. Advancing it a little has (seemed) to turn any smoke from white to black, so the timing is better.
2. ABS pipe will turn plastic at a lowish temperature...
3. My IDI runs NA fairly well, but it's so disappointing power wise.
How #2 and #3 are related... Well, my hackjob of a boost-side adapter to get the air from the turbo into the engine, for one. I had some ABS L's rigged up, and it worked fine.
Until Sunday night, where I was hauling a truck camper and dual-axle trailer(4K or so empty) going highway speeds.
It made it just fine, everything was tight...
Next day(Monday), I noticed that the ABS piping at the connections, where I have it hose-clamped inside some silicone adapters... warped. Like, it shrunk enough to just slip off and would not clamp again.
So Monday afternoon, I have to take that trailer and haul a full ton of junk vehicle 10 miles to the scrap yard, with my turbo connection just sitting there leaking massively. I was getting between 0 and 2 PSI, best case... effectively just reducing the vacuum at higher RPMs.
That.. was quite a strain on the engine. I was /barely/ maintaining 60 MPH on flat highway, and holding EGTs right in the 1050 range. For a good 10 minutes.
Water temps hit 203F, but didn't go any higher. Yay for good cooling!
Aside from some oil vapor smoke when I finally got to a stop light, it handled OK, except for the whole overloading thing...
Now, I've rebuilt my hacked adapter(I'd like to use metal, but can't find any parts locally and need to take a trip this weekend), and I'm going to put a metal sleeve inside of the two ends to prevent them from shrinking. Hopefully that'll hold until I can fix it right.
I've still had it driving without too much problem(well, once I got the junk car off the trailer); it's just the whole lack-of-power-due-to-lack-of-boost issue.
Glad its running better! Out of curiosity, have you talked to Russ about the cam? He might need to talk to Delta so it doesn't happen again. Also I think Delta should regrind you a cam...
Glad its running better! Out of curiosity, have you talked to Russ about the cam? He might need to talk to Delta so it doesn't happen again. Also I think Delta should regrind you a cam...
Back when I first had issues with this cam(check my post history; I made a topic) I tried to contact him... never got any response. Last September, I was within a few minutes of Delta Cam's headquarters, so I stopped in to talk /with/ the cam in question. I did not get any kind of meaningful information or response. Basically just told that the number etched into the end matched Russ's grind, but that's it.
------------
Back on the current topic...
I took a 100-mile round-trip journey with the truck today; 70MPH + camper + 900F EGTs for 20 minutes ended up warping one end of my /new/ ABS adapter. and blowing it out. The other end, which I'd managed to put a sleeve inside... warped just behind the sleeve, but stayed put.
I think I hit 14 PSI max on acceleration early on, when things were still tight, and hit 10-ish constant for a while with no smoke.
Those numbers may be low, but I didn't have /that/ much smoke at WOT, up past 2800 RPM... but that's also where the IP starts dropping in output.
It was a little slower going back home, but it made it. I was pretty much EGT limited, going in the 900-1150 range at part throttle, 2400 RPM in 5th... managed to hit 217F water temps at one point too.
Note that while I still had boost, worst water temp I was seeing was 206F, so it's amazing how much lower the temps were /with/ the boost under load.
Anyway, for now I don't have a good intake solution that I can rig up... so I'll put the old turbo back on tomorrow after work. Hopefully have a good apples-to-apples comparison, with literally everything else being the same, as well as a feel comparison before and after the headgaskets.
Yes. Very yes. Even 10 PSI of boost is enough if I can get the temps reasonable.
I'm still not sure the intercooler I'm going to use(obviously cheap is important; larger is probably better if it'll fit; aluminum is better than plastic).
If my intercooler doesn't do a good enough job, I plan to experiment with pure water injection /into/ the intercooler; giving any loose droplets time to drop out(where I can add a drain at the bottom of the intercooler) and preventing loose water from making it into the intake.
I used a 90 something aluminum 7.3PS IC picked up for $50 and if one didn't know better it would almost be mistaken for a factory installation.
The only part of the job that bothers me is I didn't lead my vise when reshaping the hood safety release lever and my vise bit it leaving marks! Pissed me off!
I almost beat that vise up over my stupidity ...
I did not cut the center core support either, Yup, I did reshape it a bit.
The only cutting done was for the pipes through the core support and radiator flange/brackets.
Here ya go ... Ruthie's IC installation. (94 in sig)
Technically it's not done, the radius's need cleaning up on the brackets and piping holes, the hood safety latch lever needs to be redone, everything needs a good prep and paint job, it could definitely be done cleaner, ignore the filth, it's been setting about two years.
As always right and left are as setting in the drivers seat ...
Obviously from the front no grill.
A contractor we had doing some tractor worked backed into it crunching the grill, stone deflector and bumper. Look close and you can see it in the bumper and stone deflector. He knocked $1k off the bill!
The reshaped core support brace.
I was trying to keep the IC as high as possible for sway bar clearance and inboard enough not to have to chop up the grill reinforcement panel and grill.
From the front through the core support, right side.
From the front through the core support, left side.
The gap looks big due to the angle on the IC piping. It barely fits removing and installing.
Inside through core support and radiator flanges, right side.
Inside through core support and radiator flanges, left side.
Here you can see the angle the IC piping has.
Upper mount right side, left is the same.
There are SS Rivnuts installed in the core support, just no bolts installed at the moment obviously.
I cut the IC top plastic brackets off, I fabricated the top brackets out of 1/8"x1-1/2" flat stock and screwed them to the IC with 10-32 SS machine screws, nuts and washers to what was left of the original bracket.
It's to tight to get a picture ... They are just L shaped brackets, the hardest part was shaping the upper slot for the rubber mount. It is keyed in there ...
Lower mount left side, bottoms up view, right is the same.
I wanted to use the SS Rivnuts in the core support here as well, but I needed to recess their heads into the bracket so it would set flat on the core support. I didn't have the right size end mill so I used SS bolts instead, I can do it later.
They are intentionally designed to access the bolts from the front.
Lower mount left side, side view, right side is the same.
Bottoms up.
Note the sway bar, I had to lower it 3". It just barely clears the steering linkage when suspension and steering is full stroked. But it does clear by a safe margin all the way through.
I used 1-1/2"x3"x3/16" wall tube 5" long between the frame and sway bar mounts.
And the Ugly!
Can't hardly tell the difference reaching (not looking) to grab it ... Using it feels pretty much the same.
You can barely see the A/C condenser hiding in there.
The grill reinforcement panel is pretty close in spots but it touches nowhere. There is one spot on the lower right I keep an eye on, if I ever see a mark I'll clearance it a bit.
The only modifications were ...
Cutting through the core support, radiator flanges and shroud for piping.
Reshaping the core support brace. (used a spare and saved my original)
Reshaping the Hood safety latch lever. (used a spare and saved my original)
6 holes for mounts in the core support, 4 bottom and 2 upper.
Slight lower A/C condenser bracket modification and reshaping.
I used a false center and a 3-1/2" hole saw with a 5/16" rod vs. a drill to punch through the core support and radiator flanges.
So, just thought I'd give an update(I really need to add a couple of pictures).
I swapped back the old turbo. It still works fine... which is actually impressive considering that just before I pulled it, I managed to lose a piece of allen wrench down the exhaust pipe, which promptly got sucked into the turbine blades and brought it to a halt. Fortunately it was idling at the time, but I was kind of worried...
I also found a bunch of dried pink crap all over the passenger's side of the engine. My antifreeze is pink...
Turns out the heater line ended up with a slit in it somehow right where it plugs into the block, so yesterday I lost about a gallon of coolant while driving. Didn't overheat though, just lost pressure.
Anyway, after getting it all together, I took it 50 miles to my parents place, and just got back. It handled just as expected; now that I have an apples-to-apples comparison of the two turbos under a 'loaded' situation(with my camper on the back of the truck; sucker's heavy), I saw the following:
1. My old turbo, the TE06H, spools quicker than the new S360. Kind of obvious.
2. The TE06h is a lot quieter when spooling; the S360 sounds like a jet engine. Lots of whine.
3. When spinning the shafts by hand, the TE06H has more resistance than the S360; the S360 is extremely free spinning, while the TE06h slows down a lot quicker and feels slightly sticky; no rubbing on either of them(expected and good).
4. When driving, the TE06H gives more boost at the lower end. Easily 2 PSI more at 1600 RPM under full load. I've also gotten higher PSI numbers at the 3K range(16+ PSI vs 12+)
5. The S360 on the other hand handles the higher end better; In second gear, it would rev up to 4K very quickly. The TE06H probably produces more backpressure and seems to not want to rev as high.
So far, what I've seen is that the TE06H handles better in the 1600-2400 range, where the S360 does much better in the 2400-4000 range.
Unfortunately for me, I do my driving in the 1600-2400 range. *sigh*.
I'm not giving up yet, though; I'm still not sure why I'm getting better boost pressure with the TE06H in the mid range than the S360, when that's literally the only factor that changed; I just swapped one turbo for the other.
Rob,
there is still something wrong with your engine, Mark Strock is boosting 30+ with 90cc pump. What about the mufler, is it free flowing? Honestly u need a timing light, to know what your timing is. Just to track things down to a fault, I do not see why u are boosting so low with the bigger turbo. Get the intercooler from psd and do a good piping, it wont help the boost numbers but relieves the engine of the high intake temps.
Alright, I'm back!
Between my last post and now, I've taken a weeks vacation with this truck - 1,000 miles round trip, with a heavy 8' camper on the back, in the middle of summer, going 70+ MPH.
I found something odd after adding the gaskets, and that is that the timing curve changed: I found that once I hit a few PSI of boost and started adding plenty of fuel, the timing jumps retarded by a few degrees. So before that point I've got lots of diesel clatter(slightly advanced), hit a certain point, and suddenly it sounds like a gasser. Still had fairly good power, but it was definitely pushing it going 70MPH; In addition to pushing 1k EGTs a lot, I was also running into engine temps climbing; I'd back off at around 220F. In addition, I was in 5th most of the time, not double overdrive where I usually cruise.
Anyway, at about the halfway point of my journey, I just advanced it a bit more and tried to make things a bit better; world of difference. I still had the timing 'jump' issue, but I was cruising in double overdrive at 70 without too much trouble. Only had to downshift for some steeper hills, and my engine temps were holding a lot cooler.
The day I returned home was also cooler out, so that may have been some of it.
I'm also pretty sure my fan doesn't have any oil in it anymore... it has almost no resistance, and it certainly didn't kick in; time to replace it.
Once I got back, I got things adjusted better. Oddly enough, it runs /much/ better with the IP gear advanced one tooth from nominal; I'm guessing this has something to do with the maximum pump advance being limited in the RD2 pumps(Justin said that he had to limit the advance to keep the fuel curve from dropping); compensating by adding some 'base timing' to it and then retarding it from there made it work much better.
It's still a little off - as you can hear, it needs a little more advance at the top end, and a little less down low. Not really sure how I'm going to make that happen, but it's decent.
So, for now, I'm just going to run it as is until September ish; I'll get it up on the dyno at hunting 4 horsepower and see how it looks, and then I'll see about getting an intercooler and see if I can get my 'new' turbo working.
I'm also going to try out my known-good 'stock' IP and see how that changes things -- I've always had *some* issues with timing(especially at startup) with my RD2 IP, so this should separate out my issues between IP-related and engine/compression related. Maby I knocked a spring or something loose inside it?
As far as there being something wrong with my engine... yeah, I'm sure there is. I'm still thinking I've got a flakey lifter(there's a tick that comes and goes), one of my two heads may be a little sloppy on the valves(and they are all old), and who-knows-what-else.
I will say a couple of things though:
1. I am not losing oil. I've gotten blue smoke, especially on startup, but even after 1K miles I didn't noticably lose any oil on the dipstick.
2. Coolant seems to be good, no loss there either.
These mean that the decompression gaskets are sealing pretty well; I have no complaints there.
BTW, Romel:
I have a timing light. I use it occasionally, but what seems to be hard for you(and others) to understand is that the timing procedure only works if your timing curves are correct For example, when I first was timing in my truck with the new gaskets:
1. At idle, it would sound like a gasser, and smoke. No diesel clatter. (retarded)
2. Putting it in gear and giving it a little pedal? Clattering so loudly it sounded like it might break (extremely advanced).
3. Get it up to 2K and floor it? Goes from 'medium clatter' to 'no clatter, white smoke' and again sounds like a gasser.
The problem is: If it was retarded through the rev range, the fix is easy. Advance it.
If it'd advanced, retard it. But when the timing is all over the place? Much harder. And a timing light will not help you because you are only testing at a particular RPM, at no load. And I find that the engine(and timing) has a big difference between 'no load at X RPM', 'Light load at X RPM' and 'full throttle, X RPM'.
Alright, I'm back!
Between my last post and now, I've taken a weeks vacation with this truck - 1,000 miles round trip, with a heavy 8' camper on the back, in the middle of summer, going 70+ MPH.
I found something odd after adding the gaskets, and that is that the timing curve changed: I found that once I hit a few PSI of boost and started adding plenty of fuel, the timing jumps retarded by a few degrees. So before that point I've got lots of diesel clatter(slightly advanced), hit a certain point, and suddenly it sounds like a gasser. Still had fairly good power, but it was definitely pushing it going 70MPH; In addition to pushing 1k EGTs a lot, I was also running into engine temps climbing; I'd back off at around 220F. In addition, I was in 5th most of the time, not double overdrive where I usually cruise.
Anyway, at about the halfway point of my journey, I just advanced it a bit more and tried to make things a bit better; world of difference. I still had the timing 'jump' issue, but I was cruising in double overdrive at 70 without too much trouble. Only had to downshift for some steeper hills, and my engine temps were holding a lot cooler.
The day I returned home was also cooler out, so that may have been some of it.
I'm also pretty sure my fan doesn't have any oil in it anymore... it has almost no resistance, and it certainly didn't kick in; time to replace it.
Once I got back, I got things adjusted better. Oddly enough, it runs /much/ better with the IP gear advanced one tooth from nominal; I'm guessing this has something to do with the maximum pump advance being limited in the RD2 pumps(Justin said that he had to limit the advance to keep the fuel curve from dropping); compensating by adding some 'base timing' to it and then retarding it from there made it work much better.
It's still a little off - as you can hear, it needs a little more advance at the top end, and a little less down low. Not really sure how I'm going to make that happen, but it's decent.
So, for now, I'm just going to run it as is until September ish; I'll get it up on the dyno at hunting 4 horsepower and see how it looks, and then I'll see about getting an intercooler and see if I can get my 'new' turbo working.
I'm also going to try out my known-good 'stock' IP and see how that changes things -- I've always had *some* issues with timing(especially at startup) with my RD2 IP, so this should separate out my issues between IP-related and engine/compression related. Maby I knocked a spring or something loose inside it?
As far as there being something wrong with my engine... yeah, I'm sure there is. I'm still thinking I've got a flakey lifter(there's a tick that comes and goes), one of my two heads may be a little sloppy on the valves(and they are all old), and who-knows-what-else.
I will say a couple of things though:
1. I am not losing oil. I've gotten blue smoke, especially on startup, but even after 1K miles I didn't noticably lose any oil on the dipstick.
2. Coolant seems to be good, no loss there either.
These mean that the decompression gaskets are sealing pretty well; I have no complaints there.
BTW, Romel:
I have a timing light. I use it occasionally, but what seems to be hard for you(and others) to understand is that the timing procedure only works if your timing curves are correct
For example, when I first was timing in my truck with the new gaskets:
1. At idle, it would sound like a gasser, and smoke. No diesel clatter. (retarded)
2. Putting it in gear and giving it a little pedal? Clattering so loudly it sounded like it might break (extremely advanced).
3. Get it up to 2K and floor it? Goes from 'medium clatter' to 'no clatter, white smoke' and again sounds like a gasser.
The problem is: If it was retarded through the rev range, the fix is easy. Advance it.
If it'd advanced, retard it. But when the timing is all over the place? Much harder. And a timing light will not help you because you are only testing at a particular RPM, at no load. And I find that the engine(and timing) has a big difference between 'no load at X RPM', 'Light load at X RPM' and 'full throttle, X RPM'.
Anyway, just a status update.
What about putting the governor that Justin had in it originally back in? It doesn't seem like it should have an affect on timing but who knows. I've seen weirder things...
What about putting the governor that Justin had in it originally back in? It doesn't seem like it should have an affect on timing but who knows. I've seen weirder things...
Actually, chances are it would probably advance it a little at the high end... by reducing fueling*. So while it might help the timing problem, it's not worth doing -- I really like the extra fuel. Going from hitting a max of 12 PSI at full load(and relatively little smoke), to hitting 20 with a turbo that shouldn't be able to do that? Totally worth it. Even now, on the way home, I floored it... and hit 20 PSI of boost, with my little Banks Sidewinder turbo.
*Note: Before I lengthened the governor, I recall that when I "maxed out" the pump in the upper 3K range, it started to clatter slightly more.
This was before the lengthened governor, and you can see that I was producing relatively little smoke, with 12-ish psi of boost.
Unfortunately, I don't have a video of running after I got more high-end fueling by adjusting the governor, but I can certainly make more smoke than that... on *top* of higher boost pressures.
Mostly self explanatory. It's running fairly well now... though forgetting to tighten down a hoseclamp on one of the heater hoses and losing all the water in my radiator Friday morning, 5 miles from town probably didn't help.
Managed to limp it into town, filled it up, and hey... it runs just fine again!
Today I'll probably reconnect the exhaust and take it for a nice long drive.
07-26-2016, 10:53 PM
