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97 super duty 460 gas tranny changeover info

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Old 06-27-2016, 04:16 PM
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97 super duty 460 gas tranny changeover info

Hi folks. Newbie here. Trying to find my way around, haha. Been reading what I can find on swapping over my E40D with a stick. 460 gas, long utility bed, 2 WD Dually. Had it overhaulled about a year and half ago, blew the front seal again last week. Fortunately helpers got it shut down fast, over to the side, I went out and pulled it back. I've just about had all the enjoyment I need from the automatic. Never did perform like I thought it should, couldn't even spin a tire in the sand, much less pull the truck up a decent hill to get to certain locations. I'm in the windmill business, and take the old gal maybe even places where it's not supposed to be, but dissapointment runs high with the tranny here.
Starting to find parts for a swap, pedal assembly, hydraulics, etc., but no trans yet. Drive shaft, if I can't find one, can have one redone by a local driveshaft shop. Still searching. Don't know if I will take 5 or 6 speed, whatever I can to shed some headaches, unless I'm in for more than I have already. 2 grand at a moments notice and undependable reliability on this thing is taking years off my life, and I can't afford that. lol
To get going, at the moment, will take it out, re-install the from seal, get as large as an oil cooler as I can fit in the front, and hope for the best to get 'er back on the road, if no damage from the heat has occurred. I know heat is a critical enemy, and that's when the seal went the other day. 100+ temps outside.

The brake on the end of the tranny now is optional for me. If I can't get another on a manual tranny I can drag my foot, or bail out. ha. Main thing is to get this thing more reliable, and substitute un-ending cost and trouble for more reliable service.
Thanks for reading my ramblings. Any help will be much appreciated. Thanks!
 
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Old 06-27-2016, 05:43 PM
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So you have a superduty I guess since you said you have a brake on the trans. If you want to swap to a MT, you can get a zf5 speed from a four wheel drive truck with a 460, then your park brake will bolt to the back of that instead of a transfer case. You could also use a 2wd zf5, but then you would have no parking brake which sucks with a manual trans... NBD with an auto.
 
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Old 06-27-2016, 08:39 PM
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Don't forget an ECM for the manual trans
 
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Old 06-28-2016, 07:41 AM
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Bashby, yes I have learned that here. Will try for that, depending on parts available here. Today the E40d going back in with a new seal, and fingers crossed no other damage was done. If it goes fine, then I will have more time to gather changeover parts.

Diesel Brad, never thought about an ECM for a manual. Will stew on that one too.

Thanks!
 
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Old 06-28-2016, 08:02 AM
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Make sure the cooler lines are flushed. Installing a bigger external cooler will most likely cure the overheating problem. The "fuse" is that front seal.
 
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Old 06-28-2016, 09:31 AM
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I have learned they have an overheating problem, which blows the seal. That's a real problem fuse, taking the thing out to fix the fuse. lol I have bought the largest oil cooler I can find, to use in conjunction with the smaller one, hoping to help it run at a more moderate temp.
Thanks!
 
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Old 06-28-2016, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by windybob
lol I have bought the largest oil cooler I can find, to use in conjunction with the smaller one, hoping to help it run at a more moderate temp.
Thanks!
I would not put another cooler in series with the factory radiator cooler and external air cooler. replace the smaller air cooler.
 
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Old 06-28-2016, 10:36 AM
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rla why would that be a not-so-great idea? Maybe not enough internal pressure to push through more than one? Let me know what you're thinking, maybe I can see the light.
May not have enough room for both anyways. In that case I would certainly take out the smaller one.
 
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Old 06-28-2016, 11:06 AM
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Each time you add a cooler it adds more restriction, not a good idea. The system is designed to run with the radiator cooler and most have the factory air to oil cooler. Remove that one then replace it with the bigger cooler you purchased.

Perhaps Mark Kovalsky will chime in and agree or disagree with my statement.

A comment from another thread: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ll-advise.html
 
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Old 06-28-2016, 11:50 AM
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Actually, it's not mandatory to chance the ECM for the ZF5 conversion. A friend and I converted one to manual trans about 5 years ago...it's still going strong with the ECM from the E40D. No check engine light either.
 
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Old 06-28-2016, 12:11 PM
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Okay, got it. First, I don't have the internal cooler in the radiator, the trans fluid goes to an external small cooler in front of the rad. I will more than likely replace it with the larger cooler, allowing just one, not two. Don't really wish to create more headaches than I already have.

On the ECM, I had read somewhere that after a changeover, it still works ok. however I will keep an open opinion on it after the changeover. Still waiting on the new seal from Slowreillys. I could have been there three times already this morning if knew the delivery was going to be this late. Whew.
 
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Old 06-28-2016, 12:41 PM
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So somebody prior to you re-routed or eliminated the trans cooler in the radiator. Another contributor to the overheating issue. I still would suggest to install just the larger cooler. If it were me I would see if the radiator cooler was still intact, if so plumb into it as well.
 
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Old 06-28-2016, 01:13 PM
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As long as I've had it, there's never been cooling lines to the radiator, just to the separate cooler in front of the condenser. Does not look like a shade tree job, looks original to me. I would guess at this point, factory figured a separate cooler was better in front of condenser instead of in the radiator. Just a guess. No matter at this point, after test drive, if I'm lucky enough to have all the gears proper, the larger cooler will go on anyway. Then it's on to gathering parts for the change over, and hope this thing lasts until surgery.
 
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Old 06-28-2016, 04:39 PM
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It's not factory, and that's why you keep overheating your transmission. The in-radiator transmission cooler removes the majority of heat from the transmission fluid. The aux cooler in front helps bring the temperature down further. If you don't have the radiator transmission cooler functioning, your transmission is guaranteed to overheat in low-speed, high-load situations - such as crawling around off road. More than likely either the in-radiator cooler failed and it was bypassed, or someone thought they could "improve" the cooling by bypassing the radiator cooler.

If you don't want to fix it correctly by putting the radiator cooler back in the loop, at the minimum you should get a small electric fan to put on the transmission cooler.
 
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Old 06-29-2016, 05:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Nicholas Fluhart
Actually, it's not mandatory to chance the ECM for the ZF5 conversion. A friend and I converted one to manual trans about 5 years ago...it's still going strong with the ECM from the E40D. No check engine light either.
Correct. if you leave the MLPS in neutral then the engine will run ok. BUT then no reverse lights
 


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