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Bronco xlt 87 Crank no start error code 23 23 Throttle Position Higher Or Lower Than Expected

  #1  
Old 06-03-2016, 09:45 PM
Thorvar
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Bronco xlt 87 Crank no start error code 23 23 Throttle Position Higher Or Lower Than Expected

Hi all - I've been trying to solve crank no start situation. My subject is Ford Bronco XLT 1987 5.0 with fuel injection and Automatic Transmission. And here's my story:

Few weeks back I was taking my Bronco out of the garage, it started fine and when out of the garage it died and I've not been able wake my big B up again. I've tried number of things

1. I got new sparks , wires, ignition coil, distributor cap and and rotor. I tested all spark plugs for spark and they were all doing well.

2. I doubled checked the firing order (even though I did them one by one), then I did it all over again now removing all and inserted them again. On the distributer cap marked (1) I inserted the wire for cylinder one then counter clockwise -5-4-2-6-3-7-8. Still nothing happened It cranks but no start.

3. I sprayed some starting spray into the air intake - No luck and I was getting really worried.

4. I checked the fuel pump as described in http://easyautodiagnostics.com/ford/...-relay-tests-1 everything OK I did not get accurate reading on fuel pressure but the pressure was there (my psi meter only shows MAX 10PSIG) but the meter vent all the way, so I guess the pressure is there.

5. I tested the inertia switch - it tested OK

6. Then I noticed that my ECT was in two pieces so I ordered a new one and tested it before installing after reading this one ECT Sensor problems - Ford Bronco Forum
the sensor tested good - still same problem

7. At this point I was about to start testing the fuel injectors with DMM - but before doing that I came across the self test procedure as described here Ford ? OBD Trouble Codes I ran the test using test light as I read it the outcome was "23 - 23 - 1-1-1-1" and then it stopped. So I entered the code 23 here https://actron.com/code-lookup and the result showed and got "Throttle Position Higher Or Lower Than Expected" I assumed 1-1-1-1 was a indication that the test was completed but in case I entered 11 as well and the return was "System pass". So wonder

If the fuel injectors are not triggered (working) wouldnt the self test indicate that?

What will be my next step?

I have not checked the low pressure (in tank) fuel pump, there seems to be plenty of gas in the fuel rail?

Can the Throttle Position Sensor be the root of my problem?


I really would appreciate all help.
 
  #2  
Old 06-04-2016, 01:34 AM
Torky2
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OK, I'll give it a try:

3. I sprayed some starting spray into the air intake - No luck and I was getting really worried.
Are you spraying it into the throttle body itself, with the throttle held open by hand while spraying? (should be), or are you spraying it into the actual air intake way upstream from the air filter (no!)

Can the Throttle Position Sensor be the root of my problem?
Possibly.
Many/most fuel injection systems (and I'm assuming EEC-IV here does too) turn OFF the injectors at cranking speed IF the gas pedal is held to the floor while cranking. This is the universal clearing-a-flooded-engine scenario.

If you have a TPS or TPS wiring problem such that the EEC thinks you have the pedal floored, it may not turn ON the injectors.
So unplug the TPS connector and try starting it. I guess you could still have the signal wire shorted to either the reference wire or the ground wire, whichever would make it look like a wide open throttle.

Can disconnect an injector, and rig up a small 12 volt light bulb into the injector harness connector end to see if it flashes at all at cranking speed.

Can rotate engine to TDC on cylinder #1 with spark plug out, and see if the distributors rotor tip is near cylinder #1 tower (in case timing chain took a big slip).
Knock on wood, after 46+ years, I have never had a timing chain slip, but everyone I know that did, it happened when they were starting it. "But it started fine an hour ago, how can it be bad NOW???"

Also could accurately test fuel pressure, though if it won't even pop or fire a few cylinders with starting spray applied directly into throttle body, then fuel wouldn't sound like the issue.

For safety sake - do NOT spray starting fluid or gasoline into the throttle body WHILE somebody is cranking the starter! You probably wouldn't do this... but just in case. A relative of mine poured gas into a carb while he had his wife crank the starter... It spit back gasoline on him, and he was on fire. Many skin grafts and months of pain later... luckily it didn't get his face or he would have been blind.
 
  #3  
Old 06-04-2016, 06:43 AM
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Thank you Torky for your help I'll give it a try and post the results. I sprayed into the mainfold (hand open).
 
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Old 06-06-2016, 05:44 AM
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Still no luck

I tried disconnecting TPS - no luck
I tested one injector for pulse (using test light) and it tested OK.
Before checking timing I decided to check the in tank fuel pump, I've lowered the tank but not completed testing. If the pump is working I will go for accurate pressure measure on high pressure pump. If still no luck - I'll go for the timing.
 
  #5  
Old 03-23-2017, 06:20 PM
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Well Torky 2 I finally managed to get my Bronco running, runs like Swiss watch.
Still I cannot point at one thing that was definitely at fault:-o, but I did the following.

I checked the in-tank pump, it was running, I checked the fuel pressure and it was to low. After replacing the high pressure pump I flushed all pipes and tested, still no luck fuel pressure was none. At his point the fuel pipes did not fill with fuel, so I decided to shortcut the fuel pumps like shown here Part 3 -How to Test the Ford Fuel Pump Relay (Green Relay). (By the way I did this relay test at least three times
At the same time I connected test light btw terminals on the fuel tank to ensure that both in tank and high pressure (heard the sound) pumps were running. After running 5-10 seconds the fuel pressure was increasing. Once the pressure reached 40psi I removed the relay jumper, put the relay back on and cranked the engine, and ....Life is to good...Torky2 thanx alot for your support.
 
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Old 07-29-2018, 01:44 PM
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Error codes 11-14-15 Bronco xlt 1987 5.0 l EFI automatic

Looks like I need to reopen this one, have not attended my Bronco for long time and once I reassembled it (tank in place etc.) I have the same problem crank no start.

I did a self test - but this time I did not get the engine light to blink nor turn on, so I used test light to perform the test (EEC IV Self Test hookup)


This worked fine and if I am reading the code right the codes are 11-14-15 see video:
)
Error code 11 System OK - I guess this is some sort of confirmation that the test is running?
Error code 14 Ignition pickup (PIP) was erratic Ignition Systems. I am confused here, I have new distributor, distributor hammer/arm, new spark plugs and new spark plugs wires and these are connected in the following order 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8.
Error code 15 (O) No Keep Alive Memory power to PCM pin 1 or bad PCM (Memory Test Failure) (M) KAM (pin 1) was interrupted (was battery disconnected ?) . What does this mean is EEC cone bad?

(R) = Engine Running test (M) = Memory code (O)=Key On Engine Off test
from : https://www.troublecodes.net/ford/


I am out of clue how to proceed and I would welcome any good idea.


 

Last edited by Thorvar; 07-29-2018 at 05:30 PM. Reason: Unclear
  #7  
Old 07-30-2018, 01:19 AM
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New Distributor or Remanufacured?
 
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Old 07-30-2018, 02:33 PM
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Hi Vinnie and thanx for your comment,
I wrote that I had replaced the distributor but that was not quite right, I replaced the cap and the rotator (arm/hammer). So guess my next move is to buy new distributor. I was searching the net last night for distributors but Im not sure what is the best buy for my Bronco (I prefer quality I came across these at JEGS (I have good experince doing business with them): https://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stor...ear=4294829839

Any suggestions?

Thanx again
 
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Old 07-30-2018, 06:05 PM
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The reason I asked about New Distributor or Remanufactured was that most reman companies don't test or replace the Hall-Effect Sensor that drives the PIP signal, so it can be hit or miss purchasing a reman product.

So, you are getting a KOEO Self-Test Code 11, System Passed, so you don’t have a hard code set in the EECM. (codes blink and then repeat)

You are also getting a Continuous Code of 14, which could mean an erratic PIP signal. This could be coming from a faulty Hall-Effect sensor within the distributor.

If you have a test light, probe the negative side of your coil when you turn your engine over to see if you receive pulses.
https://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/fo...ition-coil-3#4
 
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Old 07-31-2018, 08:57 PM
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As shown on the video the self test blinks 11 twice then 14 twice and then stops no ore repeat. Unfortunately I was not able to test the coil tonight but I will definitely tomorrow. Regards Thorvar
 
  #11  
Old 08-01-2018, 09:46 PM
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Hi Vinny,
I did the ignition coil test https://troubleshootmyvehicle.com/fo...ition-coil-3#4
and the test light blinks, though not very clearly see video:

I then did the https://easyautodiagnostics.com/ford...module-tests-1
Here I was bit confused how to turn the plug and I decided to turn it the way it plugs into the distributor wire 1 on top and ground number 6 on bottom see image.


Bronco 1987 xlt 5.0 L ignition test

In the first test I measured wire 4 (from top) for 12 V, it was OK
Next step was measuring the ground wire (6) at the bottom, here I was supposed to get 12 volts but got only 7.6V that indicates some ground problem I guess.
Following this I did the led tests, here I got got nothing: With key in OFF position the led was lit, KEY ON led was dead and when cracking the engine the led did not blink as it was supposed to do.

Then I tested the PIP signal as described in https://easyautodiagnostics.com/ford...dule-tests-3#2 step 4 and same there no blinking led when engine cracking. According to the website this indicates that the "

Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP) sensor is bad and the cause of this NO START condition. You'll need to replace the PIP sensor to solve the No Start No Spark Condition on your Ford (or Mercury or Lincoln) vehicle.


As I understand it then the PIP sensor is within the distributor and therefore I need to replace the distributor, isn't that correct? But before that I guess I need to investigate why I was only getting around 7Volts when testing the ground.

I did put a spark tester on cylinder 1 and that seems to be working ok see:

Regards
Thorvar




"
 
  #12  
Old 08-02-2018, 01:35 AM
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I'll take a closer look at what you did, but;
If you are getting spark, then the PIP is working.
Are you getting spark regularly?

The Hall-Effect Sensor in your Dizzy could be contaminated with debris, a good blast of air may clear the debris.
 
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Old 08-02-2018, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Thorvar View Post
But before that I guess I need to investigate why I was only getting around 7Volts when testing the ground.
"
I assume that was a Black wire you were testing for ground.
Check resistance on that Black wire, you should have little to nothing (0.00Ω reading).
That wire connects to the computer and is grounded through the computer ground.
 
  #14  
Old 08-02-2018, 05:02 AM
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Thanx for your prompt reply
When I have tested for sparks it has been working, I will take a second measure on the ground tonight and blast some air into the "Dizzy" .
 
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Old 08-02-2018, 07:36 AM
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So, if you are getting spark regularly, and your engine is not starting, then you should check Fuel Pressure, Fuel Delivery & Ignition Timing.

Put some high-test gas in a squirt bottle to spray in your intake throttle body.

If you can't get low resistance to ground reading on that black wire, you can unplug the 60 pin connector to check resistance between the black wire and pin #16 on the connector.
 

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