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Intro - 1950 F47 (F1)

  #31  
Old 09-12-2016, 10:27 PM
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I sent an email to the gentleman who posted the video above with the beige engine, and I got his reply today:


"Kirk, you had sent a message to a friend of mine, asking where he got the original colour for the flathead truck engine. His computer is down, so he asked me to reply here. It's simply Plastikote "Cummins Beige", allowed to dry... then clear coated. Hope that helps."


I did a quick search online and that paint appears readily available:


Cummins Beige Engine Enamel Paints - DE 1638 - Cummins Beige Paint, Cummins Beige Color, Dupli-Color Engine Paint, C3AD7E - Art-Paints.com


I'm still searching for a reference code for the actual Ford colour used.


This is the paint colour on another truck I found on the internet:




Kirk
 
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  #32  
Old 09-12-2016, 11:21 PM
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Don,


Your project looks great!
What did you use for your painting your frame?


Kirk
 
  #33  
Old 09-21-2016, 07:02 PM
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Oil pump removal was not fun.
I removed the retaining bolt, and then tried pulling the pump out.
It wouldn't budge. By using a large rubber mallet I finally got it a little bit free, but that was as far as it would move.
I banged it in every direction. I tried prying underneath it.
I even hung then entire weight of the block off of it and banged it with a hammer.
To say it was stuck is the understatement of the year.
Finally I used a set of consecutively larger wedges and drove them underneath the flange of the pump until I could drive it out inch by inch.








The pump itself actually snapped during the procedure.
 
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  #34  
Old 09-21-2016, 07:06 PM
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Valve and guide removal was straightforward.
I'm not planning on reusing any of the valve train so it was a straightforward removal procedure.


Pistons, rods, crank will come out next.
 
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  #35  
Old 09-22-2016, 12:23 PM
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Do you have a valve pry bar? I'd assume your guides were pretty stuck, so the way you removed them makes sense, but for a fresh installation, you can install all 16 in about 5 minutes with the pry bar, once you get the hang of it. On the assembly line they installed all of them in under a minute.
 
  #36  
Old 09-26-2016, 11:49 AM
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Yes, I have to buy one of those for the installation of the new valve assemblies.
I made do with what I had, because I wasn't worried about retaining any of the parts.
 
  #37  
Old 10-02-2016, 07:38 PM
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I mostly completed stripping down the motor.
Pistons, Rods, Cam removed and crankshaft removed and reattached to the flywheel.

I still need to take out the oil pump idler gear (I have no idea how it comes off yet) and a few other small items.
Then the block can go into a machine shop to get checked out.

I didn't take many pictures of this part. My hands were covered in sludge, and it was a pain to get the cleaned up enough to grab the cell phone.


Kirk
 
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  #38  
Old 10-02-2016, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by KirkF View Post
I still need to take out the oil pump idler gear (I have no idea how it comes off yet)
Kirk
The idler gear's shaft is pressed into the back of the block.
There should be a threaded hole in the middle of the shaft. I made a sliding hammer to pull the shaft out of the block.
...Terry
 
  #39  
Old 10-25-2016, 09:11 PM
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Progress has been pretty slow over the last month.


The frame went off to the frame shop, and it isn't back yet.


I continued prepping the motor to go to the machine shop, by removing the pistons from the rods, and removing the sludge plugs from the crank shaft and running a bristle brush inside to pull out most of the gunk.


I'm not sure if the plugs are original or not, but they are a threaded screw in plug. Which is different from what I saw in various books. It might be that the pressed in plugs were replaced at some point, or it may be that's how they were done in Canada.


The only thing left to do on the motor before it goes in, is to remove the oil idler pulley, but that will have to wait until the engine comes off the engine stand.


Kirk
 
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  #40  
Old 10-26-2016, 08:01 PM
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So I'm coming to the point where I'm going to need to spec out parts for the motor, and I'm not sure whether I should do it in this thread or start a separate one.

I'm going to need to pick the parts and where to source them from. As I'm in Canada its easier for me if a lot of parts come from the same source, as it can be a pain dealing with the border, and also some vendors don't like shipping to Canada.
In which case I have to ship them to an address at the border and drive down to get them.

Obviously I'll be waiting for word from the machine shop on actual sizes required.

The rebuild I intend to do is as follows (And this is open to change depending on the advice I get)

1. It will be for the most part a stock rebuild, using quality new parts. I want this motor to run well for a very long time.
2. The parts I will be reusing are the Block, Heads, Crank, Rods, Intake, Timing Gears, Distributor and Carb. Everything else will be replaced.
3. The block, heads, crank, and rods will be going into a machine shop to be hot tanked (or whatever equivalent they use these days) and checked for cracks, issues, etc.
4. I intend to have the bore and any journals moved up to the next standard oversize as required. I don't intend to try and increase the displacement by increasing bore or changing crank / rods.

Some of the initial questions to be answered are:

1. What should I do about valve seats? Replace them with hardened seats? Replace exhaust only, or intake and exhaust?
2. What pistons should I use? 3 or 4 ring? What brand? What vendor? and with those what are the best rings?
3. I'm replacing the complete valve assemblies, valve,spring,guides, clips, etc etc. What is the best source for ordering a complete matched set.
4. I'm intending on using adjustable valve lifters, what specific brand and vendor is recommended for these? Should I have the machine shop drill holes to hold these for adjustment?
5. I'm intending on replacing the cam. It could be with either stock or a mild aftermarket brand. What would everyone recommend?
6. How common is it to paint the inside of the block with rustoleum or glyptol? Is this a good or bad idea?
7. Should I replace the crank bolts with new ones? ARP? Should I brace the center journal? What is the preferred source for the brace?
8. Should I replace head bolts with new ones? ARP or Factory?
9. I'll need to replace the oil pump, again what are the expert opinions on brand and vendor?
10. I would prefer to replace rope seals where possible with modern seals. What are the options?


All opinions welcome. I've got several books, but I know there is a ton of highly experienced builders on here, and Id like to tap into all that knowledge!

And again, nothing above is written in stone, if you have an opinion I'm on the wrong path for any of it, please feel free to throw in your .02


Thanx,

Kirk
(Cross posted on Ford Barn)
 
  #41  
Old 10-27-2016, 02:51 PM
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vanpeltsales is where I got the majority of my flathead and transmission parts.
They seem to have evertthing.
 
  #42  
Old 10-27-2016, 03:13 PM
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You could start a new thread and have a link on your build page. That way you will have an easy way to resource it or have other people find it.
 
  #43  
Old 10-27-2016, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by KirkF View Post
...
Some of the initial questions to be answered are:

1. What should I do about valve seats? Replace them with hardened seats? Replace exhaust only, or intake and exhaust?
A '50 should already have hardened seats. Very unusual for them to need replacing, unless they are cracked or have been cut too many times. You do need hardened seats tho.
2. What pistons should I use? 3 or 4 ring? What brand? What vendor? and with those what are the best rings?
I don't believe anything special is warranted; we're talking a low-RPM, 7:1 CR engine. I had my machinist pick stock replacements, I believe they are Egge or Badger, can't swear to it. They are 4-ring. You can leave out the 3rd ring (I believe) with no loss of oil control and less friction.I spec'd Hastings cast iron rings, no problems with their products ever.
3. I'm replacing the complete valve assemblies, valve,spring,guides, clips, etc etc. What is the best source for ordering a complete matched set.
A lot of the guides, valves, and springs are made in China. There have of course been quality control issues, especially with the guides - too tight, with sticking valves resulting. This is where your machinist should be vigilant. You can still find OEM guides on eBay and some other places, may be worth it. Same for the rest.
4. I'm intending on using adjustable valve lifters, what specific brand and vendor is recommended for these? Should I have the machine shop drill holes to hold these for adjustment?
Again, be wary of anything but verified true Johnson lightweights, or Sealed Power solid (heavier) lifters (Sealed Power owns Johnson now). There are some very good lifters that I believe are made by FlatAttack out of Australia, I think Red's Headers sells them. I bought some original Johnsons off "clewwho(something)" on eBay, after 10k miles they appear fine. He seems to have a big stash of them.

The stock original lifters are a masterpiece, if yours are good, re-use them. They are very light and never need to be readjusted (if your machinist does it right). These engines are amazingly quiet with the stockers.

5. I'm intending on replacing the cam. It could be with either stock or a mild aftermarket brand. What would everyone recommend?
For a stock engine, there's little to be gained, and a lot of low-end torque to lose, with anything but stock. IMO...
6. How common is it to paint the inside of the block with rustoleum or glyptol? Is this a good or bad idea?
Sure can't hurt if done right, now or never!
7. Should I replace the crank bolts with new ones? ARP? Should I brace the center journal? What is the preferred source for the brace?
No, they're fine, the bolts are good for 2X the HP, as long as the threads are still good. They are very high quality.
The braces are for spinning above 5K RPM, with a blower or high compression. You don't need it.

8. Should I replace head bolts with new ones? ARP or Factory?
Only if the old ones are damaged. Do NOT use a tap to clean the block holes, use a thread chaser! The threads are a high-tolerance fit, a tap will reduce their strength.
9. I'll need to replace the oil pump, again what are the expert opinions on brand and vendor?
Melling, and only a Melling Made in USA. Skip the high volume, not needed.
10. I would prefer to replace rope seals where possible with modern seals. What are the options?
Nothing you can do at the rear, take a look at it. On the front you can replace the spiral grooved sleeve with a plain one and use a Buick one-piece rubber seal. They are held in place with a bunch of RTV, they don't really "fit". Success varies. If your machinist has done ropes before, leakage won't be bad.
There's about a (US) dollar's worth, just my opinions.... Glad to see another flattie being built!
 
  #44  
Old 11-30-2016, 02:29 PM
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Did you ever find a replacement oil filter decal?
 
  #45  
Old 12-01-2016, 01:53 PM
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Ross, Thanx for all the good advice.


The block, crank and rods are at the machinist now.
The first thing on the list is to get the block cleaned up and checked for cracks, and then I can go from there.


Kirk
 

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