Notices
6.7L Power Stroke Diesel 2011-current Ford Powerstroke 6.7 L turbo diesel engine
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Regen - older models vs newer

 
  #1  
Old 04-20-2016, 04:17 AM
MammaJammaTX's Avatar
MammaJammaTX
MammaJammaTX is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 85
MammaJammaTX is starting off with a positive reputation.
Regen - older models vs newer

In my research, I've seen videos that describe where the 2011 puffs diesel on the exhaust stroke during regen to push diesel into the exhaust system down towards the DPF - this is what creates the heat that cooks off the soot. It was stated that the concerns were fuel in the oil system and, with what I've seen on FTE, perhaps this is a contributor (if not the sole contributor) for the valve failures on early models.

It was also stated that later models went to installing an injector directly in the exhaust system, eliminating the concerns of fuel/oil contamination and the valve issues. The information I remember was an Amsoil presentation that discussed Ford, GM, Chevy, etc diesel engines.

Question #1 - can anyone confirm what has taken place since 2011 in the Super Duty 6.7's? Is there a certain point where Ford did put an injector in the exhaust system? Or not? What are they doing in 2016 & 2017?

Question #2 - assuming most or all of what I saw was factual, how did Ford get by the early 6.7 valve failure / engine failure issues in later models - what did they do? The failures I read about reference injector failures AND valve failures, and I keep seeing people chime in that the injectors are not the guilty party - that its the valve failing (possibly / likely related to heat from regen).

Question #3 - has Ford ever admitted to a "problem" with this process in the early models?

FYI - I am running a 3/10 build 2011 w/ 101k miles on her. (no issues ... knock on wood!) Thanks in advance for any input and feedback.
 
  #2  
Old 04-20-2016, 05:22 AM
senix's Avatar
senix
senix is offline
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 29,715
senix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputation
Ford has and still just uses the exhaust stroke to send fuel down the exhaust system for the regen.

The early ones (2011) had a valve issue that could take the heat due its (valves) design. They changed the valve materials.

GM uses a ninth injector for their application. I don't recall what Ram is using.

My understanding is Ford did not want to go to the 9th injector as you add more parts for the injector and more complexity.

Ford did indicate there were problems and did a redesign of the head, valves and glowplugs for later MY trucks. No recalls. It is not a safety issue that warrants a recall is the route they choose I would assume.
 
  #3  
Old 04-20-2016, 05:33 AM
MammaJammaTX's Avatar
MammaJammaTX
MammaJammaTX is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 85
MammaJammaTX is starting off with a positive reputation.
Thanks for the input. I read in this blog that it's a "crap shoot" on the early 2011's and whether or not you have these major issues with failure. Sounds to me like there is a certain design flaw and the crap shoot is whether or not YOUR particular engine fails. Fail or no fail, the design is sub-par based on Ford's findings. With that said, it doesn't seem fair or reasonable for Ford to warranty ONLY those engines that actually fail below the 100k milestone. I have never received any such disclosure to this issue until I began to read about it on FTE. Very frustrating to say the least - and concerning.
 
  #4  
Old 04-20-2016, 06:39 PM
kper05's Avatar
kper05
kper05 is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: AL
Posts: 5,864
kper05 has a brilliant futurekper05 has a brilliant futurekper05 has a brilliant futurekper05 has a brilliant futurekper05 has a brilliant futurekper05 has a brilliant futurekper05 has a brilliant futurekper05 has a brilliant futurekper05 has a brilliant futurekper05 has a brilliant futurekper05 has a brilliant future
That essentially sums it up. You either have a good 2011 job 1 engine or a bad one and from the experiences reported here, you won't know until it lets go. Some fail before 100k and Ford covers the cost and some fail after and it's customer pay. I think ruschejj's 2011 was the most expensive I've seen so far at $26,000 in extended warranty paid repairs. Some let go quietly and some have missing hardware (like a piston) after.
 
  #5  
Old 04-20-2016, 06:51 PM
ruschejj's Avatar
ruschejj
ruschejj is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Greenwood, SC
Posts: 6,663
ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.
When mine let go it was violent. A hydro lock that mixed oil and coolant together in the primary cooling system, so there were new coolers, new long block, new turbo, plus the complete exhaust system. I also needed new batteries. I think the air conditioning and power steering, and the brake system were pretty much the only things not affected under the hood.

It is just a bad batch of valves where the supplier to ford didn't get the metal alloy right. The easiest fix is to buy new heads that have the valves in them already. The other way is to buy the valves and install them in your current heads but the labor cost doing this is about the same as just getting a new head assembly and bolting it on.
 
  #6  
Old 04-20-2016, 08:57 PM
MammaJammaTX's Avatar
MammaJammaTX
MammaJammaTX is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 85
MammaJammaTX is starting off with a positive reputation.
ruschejj!!!! That's the whole damned truck! That is nuts. Damned thing isn't even worth that much. I am not feeling good about this at all. When you say to buy the heads w/ valves in them - sounds like you are talking about something a shop has to do. Sounds like an equally complicated / expensive task. Also sounds like you'd have to remove the body to get at all of that crap - and while you're at it, change out the sorry turbo.
All this chatter has me concerned. I did not know this at the time of purchase. I may be considering an upgrade. Any suggestions for the "best" year/model?
 
  #7  
Old 04-21-2016, 05:08 AM
senix's Avatar
senix
senix is offline
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 29,715
senix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputationsenix has a superb reputation
you can do all that work with the cab on as well.

Engine replacement works best cab off.

The stuff on top of the heads looks worse than it is.
 
  #8  
Old 04-21-2016, 09:21 PM
kper05's Avatar
kper05
kper05 is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: AL
Posts: 5,864
kper05 has a brilliant futurekper05 has a brilliant futurekper05 has a brilliant futurekper05 has a brilliant futurekper05 has a brilliant futurekper05 has a brilliant futurekper05 has a brilliant futurekper05 has a brilliant futurekper05 has a brilliant futurekper05 has a brilliant futurekper05 has a brilliant future
There were also a lot of 2011 job 1 trucks built. I thought a lot about this when my warranty was ending last June but decided I have a difficult time believing every 2011 6.7L engine is going to blow up. I also agree there's a higher risk and only you can decide if spending the upgrade cost now is worth it. I estimate Ford has spent $4,000 in various fixes, repairs and labor on my truck over the years but none of those have been the engine internals.
 
  #9  
Old 04-21-2016, 10:13 PM
MammaJammaTX's Avatar
MammaJammaTX
MammaJammaTX is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 85
MammaJammaTX is starting off with a positive reputation.
What about this from a past blog ..."To elaborate on the TSB I mentioned here is the info and it may or may not apply according to the build date:•TSB 12-11-11 - 2011 F-Super Duty - 6.7L Diesel - Runs Rough - No Crank - Glow Plug Circuit Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) - Built On Or Before 3/29/2011"

Glow plug issues or not? I've read it both ways - glow plugs cause the issues or other stuff breaks causing plugs to go bad. Seems like an awful lot of chatter about this issue. I've contacted Ford to ask for assistance - I got a politician's answer ... a long paragraph or two that never got close to answering my specific questions.

If there were issues with early models, I don't see how Ford can just let that fly and see what happens ... wait for the damage and fix it, and if you are out of warranty, tough luck buddy.

How do you get the magic Ford Jeanie to chime in on this?
 
  #10  
Old 04-23-2016, 12:48 AM
Dakster's Avatar
Dakster
Dakster is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,710
Dakster has a superb reputationDakster has a superb reputationDakster has a superb reputationDakster has a superb reputationDakster has a superb reputationDakster has a superb reputationDakster has a superb reputationDakster has a superb reputationDakster has a superb reputationDakster has a superb reputationDakster has a superb reputation
Not meaning to be gruff here - just telling you what I see.

Ford can let fly whatever they want. Ford attitude is this, there is a warranty that guarantees you get to X miles and/or X years... (2011's were 5/100k powertrain) They don't warranty them forever, even if it is a manufacturer "defect". Even most states lemon laws will only cover you to 100k or 125k miles. At that point they consider a car/truck used up. (even for diesel vehicles) We've had bloggers whose motors went at 400 to a few thousand miles past warranty and Ford didn't help them. Sucks, but they are toting the letter of the warranty.

Because I have been a "victim" of this - and even armed with TSBs, but not recalls, I have had to pay for repairs that should have been covered under warranty.

Which is why now, I do not like to drive vehicles past their warranty. I don't drive more than 12k miles per year on average. My 2015 I bought an extended warranty out to 6 years and when that is up, I will trade in. So far (at least in the past 20 years for me) has happened, is because I take care of my vehicles and I don't put tons of miles on them, I get a decent trade in on them. Yep, I am always in a vehicle payment, but I am in always in a new vehicle and with the latest technology too.

When you have a out of warranty vehicle you need your own warranty slush fund. If nothing happens, you take that slush fund and put it down on it's replacement, whenever that may be.
 
  #11  
Old 04-23-2016, 05:56 AM
MammaJammaTX's Avatar
MammaJammaTX
MammaJammaTX is offline
Junior User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Fort Worth
Posts: 85
MammaJammaTX is starting off with a positive reputation.
That's not gruff, and I get it, but we're not talking about your everyday breakdown here. What I am talking about is a known manufacturing defect or design flaw that can and will cause severe damage leading to complete engine failure and replacement.
To me, its about the numbers. If this is 1 in 1000, then so be it. I have requested the information from Ford and I'm sure they wont provide it. This seems to be bigger than 1 in 1000 - who knows. I'd say MANY that have had this event are not FTE bloggers, so we wouldn't know.
I've talked with a local diesel performance shop - I have a proposal to replace the 2 piece valves that fail, replace the hapless turbo with ceramic bearings, and to delete the DPF that has a limited lifespan. To me, all of these things are under-designed and the customer shouldn't have to do any of it in order to be ably to rely on the truck.
Like you and scores of others, I have owned many vehicles. I respect your position on owning newer in-warranty vehicles. It's always all about preference. For me, i'd like to see some return on investment. I had an '87 dodge 1/2 ton that went 10 years and took me from Boston to Anchorage and back towing a trailer I had no business towing. I love my Super Duty, but she has a tough act to follow. She's set up to last a whole lot longer than 5 years, and many of us don't have the luxury of not putting the miles on. Regardless, the miles don't change the defects.
Thanks for your insight - much appreciated.
 
 
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
my50F1
6.7L Power Stroke Diesel
32
08-13-2018 10:04 PM
nolanseattle
1999 to 2016 Super Duty
1
05-18-2017 11:51 PM
bismic
6.0L Power Stroke Diesel
37
05-17-2017 03:42 PM
2006powerstroke90
6.0L Power Stroke Diesel
26
04-01-2017 09:54 PM
rdlouks
6.7L Power Stroke Diesel
2
02-24-2016 07:42 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Regen - older models vs newer


Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: