My axle wrap is back since performing the holiday upgrades and installing the GH tune. It is not as bad as it used to be before installing new leaf springs and the RAS, but it is there at times. I don't like it, and am going to correct it with some sort of ladder/traction bar.

I have a few requirements.

They need to be bolt on, not weld. They need to work with air bags because they are in my future when we upgrade to a 5th wheel. They need to be a quality part that will not break or cause problems in the future.

I don't have the resources or skills to build my own set, otherwise I would have done that already and posted pictures.

I like the OUO adjustable bars, but they are going to run about $1000. If that is what is needed, I am OK with paying that price. Although, I consider myself a bargain shopper that firmly believes in you get what you pay for at times.

Someone recommended PMF to me, and that is certainly on the list of doing research on. I am open to all suggestions, experiences and what I should stay away from like the plague.

Rich (Tugly) had a set installed and from I can remember they seem to be causing him a bit of suspension problems despite keeping the axle straight. Again, I don't mind paying the high dollar price for a quality piece, but if I can get nearly the same thing with a great result for a better price, then that is the route I will go.

The Dorman bellowed up-pipes are a good example of a great product that can be bought for a good price and still performs. I am looking for the same sort of thing in the traction/ladder bar area and will pay the high prices if I have to, but would rather spend it on other fun things.

Thanks all!

 

The problem with traditional ladder bars is that they arc on a different radius than the axle and you end up fighting the front half of the spring. You can fix this in two ways - make the axle float via the bars (single link ladders or 4/5 link whole rear suspension) and put shackles on the front hangers in addition to the rears, or make the attachment point at the front of the ladder bars float.


About 10 years ago I came up with an articulating single traction bar design and promptly got out of a vehicle capable of testing it. I may take that back up and give it a go in mine as it solves all the known issues while still retaining ultimate control of the axle nose angle. I'm not sure if the f350 has the room for it with my exhaust, but I'll find out when the weather warms up a bit more. I have the same problem with my truck under a load off the line. The pinion nose must shoot for the stars based on how it feels in the drivers seat.

 

I just fired off an email to PMF asking the questions below. We will see what they say. I have already gotten many answers to my questions from OUO and so far they are at the top of the list.

1. Do you have any installation instructions for the bolt on kit?

2. Do you have any pictures of the bolt on kit that do not modify the block?

3. For the axle mount type of bolt on, does the bar bolt to the top part of the u-bolts on the axle/springs? If not, how does it bolt to the axle?

4. For the block height option, would I select "bolt on or weld on kit" if I was going to retain the stock blocks and not change the height of the truck?

5. Which option should I select for block taper if I am planning to get a bolt on kit with no modifications to the blocks?

6. For block options, if I plan to retain the OEM blocks in the suspension, do I just leave this choice on "block options".

7. Why is there only a single bar instead of dual bars like others offer? Is the PMF bar superior in design and that is why it does not require two bars?


Some on you know that I over analyze everything and piece things together in my head over and over so that when I go to purchase and install the part, I already know what I am doing. That is what phase I am right now for the traction bars. I need to find the right fit for the right price, then scrutinize it as much as I can to be 100% sure it is the right choice.

Looking around a bit, it seems that Pro-Comp makes a reasonably good kit for about $475 shipped from Amazon.



I am not looking for big horse power numbers. I am not looking to smoke my tires or roll coal. I just want a nice and steady start when towing and on an incline from a stop instead of a couple of hops. I can normally predict when it is going to happen and either start in low gear or feather the throttle more, but it would be nice to just ease into the throttle and off the clutch and go on with our journey without thinking about it.

Also, I think the Tuff Country kit is the one Rich has on his truck and I am sure he will chime in here shortly.

 

I'm in the same boat over analyzing the ladder bar options for my 2003 Excursion. I have spoken with OUO, and they dos seem to be the cream of the crop! I am looking forward to seeing PMF's response is!

 

I have the OUO traction lift blocks and bars. I can tell you that they are superb and the install is 100% bolt on. I have done several suspension kits on lifted and lowered trucks. The OUO parts are the best designed and best fitting parts I have ever seen. You do get what you pay for and OUO is spot on.

They also made my truck feel much better. Very controlled suspension that works well on and off road. I would definitely recommend them to anyone looking for traction bars.

 

What do the OUO bars cost for the Ex's

 

I have a set of the PMF weld on bars in the garage ready for install-hopefully this weekend, I'll follow up with a thread on that or append to this one if that's ok. I discussed my use with PMF (probably same as yours Sous) and the articulation was a key point. PMF advised away from their floating version for the single bar setup for a few reasons. They did spend quite a bit of design time to ensure the single bar accommodated the axle's movement. Regardless, for $400 savings and a very robust set of bars, I went with it.

The pro comps you posted don't include the brackets, that's just the universal bars BTW.

 

I have to say i havent experience axle wrap like you guys, mind you my truck has some mods( look at sig) and ive put some weight on her and done some wot runs with the trailer and skid steer somewhere around 10k (pic below)
1. Does the over load spring have something to do with it?
2. Is it because my drive shaft is a two piece design?
Can someone exlain this?

 

I don't know. All I can say is that when I'm towing our TT with gear, when I accelerate in 1st, I have to do so with moderate throttle to avoid severe vibration. Moderate throttle gives some vibration. My truck has a freshly rebuilt two piece driveline with a new and tight slip joint and carrier bearing.

 

Maybe its a Super Duty thing? At work none of the 7.3 trucks have the over load spring and they get minimal axel wrap (some have cm flat beds the others flat beds?) I dont know if that over load spring has something to do with it?

 

I'm listening to this one.

 

Overloads should have nothing to do with it. The 4" factory lift blocks in a F350SD are a major contributor as the axle is leveraged against the spring pack by the distance of the lift block.


When you want to break a seized bolt loose, you get a cheater bar right? Same thing is happening when your pinion is trying to climb your ring gear and the lift blocks are acting as a lever to bend the spring packs in the middle - thus "wrap" occurs. Then the spring fights back and recoils sending the pinion back downward which usually occurs with a bit of push and that subsequently cams the axle rearward and when it comes back forward again it tends to unload the tires and tries to hop. Then you get traction again, and start the cycle all over with the pinion climbing the ring gear.


Typically only happens when you can get traction, because without the tires being able to hold the torque being fed into the diff, there's no winding up occurring and you just spin.

 

While I don't have the 4" block (yet), I have a leeeetle more torque than stock.





I knew nothing when I bought traction bars, and I bought the Tuff Country 20990 kit [LINK]. Don't be lulled into a sense these are a cheaper option that the Pro Comps, one needs to replace or modify the existing axle U-bolts to install the Tuff Country version.














I was having some issues that put the ladder bars under suspicion, but it turned out to be something else. I recently grotesquely overloaded the truck to 10,000 pounds (F250), and the helper springs were parked on the stops. The truck rode and drove like a Cadillac on steroids, and cornered like a sports car. I heard no popping or straining back there, so I have zero complaints about this design. The experts may point out something that means the early demise of my rear end - or not. I don't know.

 

I have the Pro Comp and still have wheel hop in the snow. It is better than without but is still there. I am going to try to figure out a different mount or bushings to fix it.

 

SRBF150, I welcome any discussion or real world experiences you can bring to this thread. I don't mind you posting your thoughts on the PMF set up, as a matter of fact I welcome them. Does the PMF bar mount toward the middle of the axle because it is a weld on version and not the bolt on? Now that I am thinking about it, I might be unhappy with a single traction bar if it were isolated to one side and using the spring u-bolts as a bracket. It might make the under body look unbalanced in a way.

Adam, I think that Jim gave a pretty accurate description. In my particular case I feel there are a few factors that come into play here. The HP and torque of the truck, the ZF6 transmission, the single piece drive shaft, the Cooper STT Maxx tires which are very sticky, the short bed/super cab body style and it is a 4x4 with higher blocks sitting on the axle. All of these contribute to the axle wrap that I experience during a high torque situation. I say high torque not because I bury the fuel pedal. I say high torque because the truck is demanding it starting from a dead stop up a somewhat steep hill. I say high torque because the trailer I am pulling sometimes requires a bit more fuel to get going, even in low gear if I am on an incline at all. Some people in the past when I was experiencing axle wrap before told me that I was accelerating too fast or that I should not be trying to win a race like a tractor pull when towing the camper. That is not the case at all. I baby this truck as much as possible because I need it to last another 250K miles. Please don't take my words as I am in a hurry, quiet the contrary. I usually wait for the light to turn green then ease into the throttle as much as I can and get her going. Once she is moving, then the power can be applied. It is that initial push to get moving from a stop.

Rich, I had not read that your Tuff Country bars were not the cause of the suspension problem you were having, this is good news. Did the u-bolts come with the ladder bars or did you have to source those separately? If they were purchased by themselves, do you happen to have a part number or measurements that I could use? In the details about the bars and the instructions I did not see any mention of new u-bolts. In step 2 they specifically mention saving the u-bolts for re-installation. Perhaps that is a little surprise that they leave for the installer to find out themselves. Although, typically u-bolts used in leaf springs applications are torque to yield, so maybe they are just counting on the OEM u-bolts to hold even after being removed once.

http://www.tuffcountry.com/wp-conten...ions/20990.pdf

Articatdan is still having some minor issues with the Pro-Comp setup, but only in certain situations. In addition, I don't ever plan to be in snow ever again in my life. You never can tell what life will bring you though.

The Tuff Country set is roughly $400 ($350 if bought soon on sale), and the Pro-Comp is roughly $475 (with the mounts) and PMF comes in at $550 for the configuration I had selected. I think that any of these may be the right choice for my use over the OUO at around $1000. I am waiting to see how things go with SRBF150 and his install. Also, words from others and their experiences including Rich and his u-bolt replacement suggestion.

Again, comparing the OUO setup to any of these there is no real comparison. I just don't think I can justify an extra $650-$400 out of my pocket for a product that does the same thing for me that I could get in a much more affordable setup. If money were no object, I would already have the OUO, but it is an object for me and my family that we must count on.

Thinking out loud here, but ladder bars have no impact on air bags right? Air bags keep the truck body level by raising the body up with an air cushion. The ladder bar is secured to the axle which does not change height in relation to the body. The only point of concern for the ladder bar would be the point at which they mount to the frame. Maybe they are far enough forward that the angle of rise and fall are not enough to put the ladder bars into a bind. Thoughts? Anyone using ladder bars and air bags?

Keep the opinions and experiences coming, this has potential to be a great thread.