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Holley/Motorcraft 4180 Carburetor

 
  #16  
Old 03-01-2016, 03:32 PM
brian eiland
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Originally Posted by ArdWrknTrk View Post
Holley has a tutorial on their website.

Maybe that's better at explaining it?
Holley Power Valve Tuning - Blogs - Holley Performance Products Forums
That was interesting.

This quote from that site sure sounds like my problem:
The incorrect size power valve, or a blown out power valve can cause problems such as poor fuel economy, black smoke emanating from your exhaust, dark or fouling spark plugs and a poor idle. If you suspect that your carburetor has a blown-out power valve, you can perform this simple test.
Well I hope I don't have a blown out one as it is NEW. As to size, I would have hoped i got the correct kit,...but who knows now

This quote was also interesting:
Performance Holley carburetors come with a power valve blow-out check valve built in. It prevents damage to the power valve in case of backfire. Holley carbs older than 1992, however, may not have this check valve built in.
I'm thinking that the power valve I received in that kit is in fact one with this blow-out check valve. Isn't that the valve I'm seeing in my new power valve??
 
  #17  
Old 03-01-2016, 03:35 PM
brian eiland
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I'm thinking I may have another go at it with my new idle screw settings and see what happens. I'm getting to be an expert at removing the carb.
 
  #18  
Old 03-01-2016, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
This quote from that site sure sounds like my problem:

Well I hope I don't have a blown out one as it is NEW. As to size, I would have hoped i got the correct kit,...but who knows now

This quote was also interesting:

I'm thinking that the power valve I received in that kit is in fact one with this blow-out check valve. Isn't that the valve I'm seeing in my new power valve??
The check ball is built into the carburetor BODY.

I don't know anything about some aftermarket powervalve.
I would look for a vacuum number stamped on the valve somewhere.

On Holley valves the numbers are stamped on the gasket face of the valve.
 
  #19  
Old 03-02-2016, 12:34 PM
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Power Valves

So this morning I tried running my vehicle again. This time I had closed down all the idle screws to 1/2 turn on the secondaries, and 1 (one) turn on the primary side. It is still belching black smoke out the tail pipe,...way to rich.

I even experimented with closing down totally the idle jet screws on the secondaries, and it still runs just as rich.

So I am looking at the power valve question AGAIN. The power valve I removed from my carb before the rebuild looks like the one I posted back on #4 posting. It has a TWO numbers on its outer flange (254 & 2C2).
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My new power valve has no numbers on it, and it has something extra in its center bore. (appears to be some sort of check valve?)
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The bore diameter of the older one appears to be slightly larger than the new one?

This freaking carb problem is about to get the best of me
Wonder if someone at Holley can give me some other trail to follow?
 
  #20  
Old 03-02-2016, 01:17 PM
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I tried registering on that Holley forum to see what i might learn, but it seems forever to get the initial email from them acknowledging registration.
 
  #21  
Old 03-02-2016, 01:30 PM
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Plugging the freaking Power Valve

I was just reading a few postings over on the Holley forum (not yet a recognized member), and I saw this interesting posting:
I'm trying to tune the Truck Avenger on the truck in my signature block. I made another post about it last night, but it seems to have vanished like a fart in the wind, so I'm making a new post with the latest update. A brief summary of last night's post goes like this: the truck runs way too rich with the power valve open, and leaning out the main jets to make a good WOT run leaves me with a lean spot during slow acceleration. It's definitely a power valve issue, not an accelerator pump issue. I've been obsessing over it for weeks. Seriously...weeks. All I do with my spare time is mess with this. My wife is basically a Holley widow (which is ironic because her name is Holly), and I'm expecting my neighbors to call the cops if they hear my truck bogging down in the driveway just one more time. I've tried every combo of jets from #48 to #59 with power valves from 2.5 to 10.5 possible. Anything that's streetable enough to drive in town is pig rich at moderate throttle. I've kept the secondaries zip tied shut to isolate them while I troubleshoot this primary issue.

Last night I tried something. I made a power valve plug to use for troubleshooting. I installed it and took a spin just to see what would happen...and it's like I got a new truck. I'm telling you, I've had 6 different carbs on this truck in 2 years, and it's NEVER been this driveable. The crazy thing is the AFR still behaves like it has a power valve installed. It's nice and lean at idle and part throttle, and as I tip into it, it richens up all by itself. It actually gets TOO rich with #59 jets, so I'm gonna lean it out a bit today and see what I get.

Next thing I did last night was take the zip tie off the secondaries and make a WOT pull. It was real good. A bit lean, but that's because the secondaries opened at like 1,800 RPM...which is weird because I'm running a black spring and an open air cleaner. I have a Quick Fuel adjustable secondary can. I'll install that and see if I can calm the secondaries down.

But what's the deal here? I'm not prepared to declare that my truck is special or unique, or that I know better or different than anyone else, but it really runs GREAT without a power valve. I'd love to hear some opinions.
Plugging The Power Valve
 
  #22  
Old 03-02-2016, 02:34 PM
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I don't know these numbers.
Holley power valves have a two digit number and a date code opposite.

Between 8-6 should be okay.

I would look at installing a blowout protection kit
Either the Centek unit or the more difficult Holley 125-500
 
  #23  
Old 03-02-2016, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
Would a 'power valve' have anything to do with idle richness??
Yes. Do you have a stock camshaft installed? Or, a rumpety-rump drag racer thing goin' on? What is your idle RPM set at? A healthy, stock V8 engine at sea level will draw 18" - 21" of vacuum at idle.

How about yours. How much vacuum does it draw at OEM idle RPM?

also, where is the power valve gasket in your picture? Put a standard power valve in place of the two-stage for now.
 
  #24  
Old 03-02-2016, 03:01 PM
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You bring up a good point Ted.

I wonder how sloppy the timing chain is (if running a stock cam)
 
  #25  
Old 03-02-2016, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
So I am looking at the power valve question AGAIN. The power valve I removed from my carb before the rebuild looks like the one I posted back on #4 posting. It has a TWO numbers on its outer flange (254 & 2C2).
These are the only 2 numbers I see on the power valve I removed from my carb before rebuilding it. At one time this worked just fine??
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I can try blowing into either end of this valve, and meet total resistance,...no air going thru. But if I suck on either end I get air slowly.

Perhaps I should try putting this one back end to my rebuild, and forget the new kit one?
 
  #26  
Old 03-02-2016, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by ArdWrknTrk View Post
If you are sure the float levels are right, try starting the engine and slowly turning the mixture screws all the way in.
If the truck is still trying to run it is certain there is a leak in the PV somewhere.
Didn't see where you addressed comment/question above?

Originally Posted by brian eiland View Post
I'm thinking I may have another go at it with my new idle screw settings and see what happens. I'm getting to be an expert at removing the carb.
Are you setting the mixture screws while the carb is off and then putting it back on, not fine tuning the idle mixture beyond that point with the engine running?

Your above statement suggests that you're not, a pain to get to them with it bolted down on the intake yea but you'll have to fine tune the idle mixture with engine running at full operating temperature.

Just setting them at a given number of turns or half turns out isn't gonna cut it, that's just a starting point to get it in the ballpark for "first run" nothing more...so it will start and hold an idle for final adjustment.

To add to question as to base timing and engine vac, what is the fuel pressure reading for it? Doubt its too "high" but if everything else is as it should be it wouldn't hurt to check it.
 
  #27  
Old 03-02-2016, 04:27 PM
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I'm going to assume the carb was rebuilt before.
(Were the idle screws plugged when you first opened it up?)

I'm also going to ask if your egr valve is closing properly.
 
  #28  
Old 03-02-2016, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Tedster9 View Post
Yes. Do you have a stock camshaft installed? Or, a rumpety-rump drag racer thing goin' on? What is your idle RPM set at? A healthy, stock V8 engine at sea level will draw 18" - 21" of vacuum at idle. How about yours.

also, where is the power valve gasket in your picture? Put a standard power valve in place of the two-stage for now.
I do NOT have any special cam that I know of, but I bought the van used a long number of years ago.

The gasket fit on the long protrusion end, and sealed against the metering body.

I can't even get it to idle so I can measure any RPM or vacuum. It just stalls out from too much fuel
 
  #29  
Old 03-02-2016, 04:36 PM
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Well "too many cooks spoil the broth" so I will just add a link and a photo to consider.

Setting up a carb, common errors and tips here:

http://www.junkyardgenius.com/holley/tune01.html

Make sure the throttle butterflies are almost closed, make the idle circuit do all the work at idle, like this:
 
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  #30  
Old 03-02-2016, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ArdWrknTrk View Post
I'm going to assume the carb was rebuilt before.
(Were the idle screws plugged when you first opened it up?)

I'm also going to ask if your egr valve is closing properly.
I think it was rebuilt before, and yes the idle screws plugs were NOT there. I had removed them at one time to adjust the idle.

I had the engine running smooth at idle until recently when it suddenly became over rich at idle. I suspected this damn ethanol fuel sitting in the carb for 2 months. As i took the carb apart I discovered bad o-rings on the float bowl pins. I then suspected that the sealing ends of these needle pins might be bad also, ....so said why not just put a rebuild kit into the carb and be done with it. That's turned into this nightmare.

I do NOT know the condition of the EGR valve. Is there a way to tell, or do I need to remove it as well. I had thought I might leave this tighten up as it had been??
 

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