Forrest's major mods round 2
#31
02-28-2016, 09:21 PM
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Have you done injectors before?
If not, they can be particular to get seated all the way in, then need to be properly torqued. Others with more expertise (not me, LOL) will hopefully give some better information here.
Some tips when replacing injectors (including just doing the orings as we did)
What was it doing when it didn't start? Did you fill the HPOP with oil first?
What about cycling the key in 30 sec increments about 10-15 times before cranking?
Only crank about 10 secs, wait about 10 secs, repeat a few times.
Make sure your batteries are well charged, you'll need it.
It's a normal thing, then expect to have TONS OF SMOKE for the first few mins.
When it first tried to start, I shut it off right away. Was just trying to get oil into all the good spots before starting.
Tell us how you popped the injectors in all the way and tightened them.
If not, they can be particular to get seated all the way in, then need to be properly torqued. Others with more expertise (not me, LOL) will hopefully give some better information here.
Some tips when replacing injectors (including just doing the orings as we did)
What was it doing when it didn't start? Did you fill the HPOP with oil first?
What about cycling the key in 30 sec increments about 10-15 times before cranking?
Only crank about 10 secs, wait about 10 secs, repeat a few times.
Make sure your batteries are well charged, you'll need it.
It's a normal thing, then expect to have TONS OF SMOKE for the first few mins.
When it first tried to start, I shut it off right away. Was just trying to get oil into all the good spots before starting.
Tell us how you popped the injectors in all the way and tightened them.
#32
02-28-2016, 10:06 PM
This is my first time removing and installing injectors. I used my plastic faced deadblow to seat them and checked they were all the same height with a straight edge. The thud is pretty distinct. The Pass side is bit tricky but workable.
I did fill the HPOP first. I cranked with the UVCH disconnected until I saw oil pressure on the dash gauge and then plugged the UVCH in and cranked some more but then the batteries gave up. Once that occured, about all I could get out of them was 6 to 10 revolutions every half hour or more while I worked on other stuff.
Most likely, there is still a lot of air in the system and the batteries aren't helping. Since the truck is at a friends shop, he'll give it some crank time each evening this week and maybe by Friday it will start.
I did fill the HPOP first. I cranked with the UVCH disconnected until I saw oil pressure on the dash gauge and then plugged the UVCH in and cranked some more but then the batteries gave up. Once that occured, about all I could get out of them was 6 to 10 revolutions every half hour or more while I worked on other stuff.
Most likely, there is still a lot of air in the system and the batteries aren't helping. Since the truck is at a friends shop, he'll give it some crank time each evening this week and maybe by Friday it will start.
#33
02-28-2016, 11:05 PM
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That's helpful info!
Sounds like you were well read up on the injector install
Batteries are CRITICAL to our trucks. When the voltage is low, the injectors don't fire, the PCM doesn't...uhm..."pc any m's " and the fuel pump can't be relied upon to make enough pressure reliably.
I'd recommend getting both batteries fully charged before continuing. It will be the simplest thing to do. Chargers aren't crazy money, especially if you have a buddy with a garage who happens to own one, LOL.
Do you have a way to check and watch the voltage, especially while cranking?
Make sure everything you can turn off is turned off in the cab, foot off the brake.
It takes a while to get a first start after injectors, you're gonna need fully charged batteries.
Oh- and you hooked the UVCH back up, right?
Sounds like you were well read up on the injector install
Batteries are CRITICAL to our trucks. When the voltage is low, the injectors don't fire, the PCM doesn't...uhm..."pc any m's " and the fuel pump can't be relied upon to make enough pressure reliably.
I'd recommend getting both batteries fully charged before continuing. It will be the simplest thing to do. Chargers aren't crazy money, especially if you have a buddy with a garage who happens to own one, LOL.
Do you have a way to check and watch the voltage, especially while cranking?
Make sure everything you can turn off is turned off in the cab, foot off the brake.
It takes a while to get a first start after injectors, you're gonna need fully charged batteries.
Oh- and you hooked the UVCH back up, right?
#34
02-29-2016, 08:43 AM
I've got a battery tender on each battery and they had been charging before attempting to start so, they're just getting old. The UVCH was connected. They would get down to 10V or even 9.8 once they dropped off. My Tekonsha in troubleshooting mode displays the battery voltage. I presume they're also trying to light the glowplugs as well.
#36
02-29-2016, 03:01 PM
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I've got a battery tender on each battery and they had been charging before attempting to start so, they're just getting old. The UVCH was connected. They would get down to 10V or even 9.8 once they dropped off. My Tekonsha in troubleshooting mode displays the battery voltage. I presume they're also trying to light the glowplugs as well.
Minimum 20 amp battery charger (40 is better).
OBD Bluetooth adapter, if you have a smartphone for TorquePro. It will give you voltage, ICP, and much, much more. Adapters < $20, TorquePro $10 if you get the paid version or you can use the free version.
Battery tenders lack the bulk charging mode and can destroy batteries if used on deeply discharged batteries
Depending on your budget, I like a charger with a 200 amp boost. We have a lot of different equipment, so it is worth its weight in gold. If you only have the truck or live in town, not sure if you'd get enough use out of it- might be better money spent on new batteries, LOL.
#37
02-29-2016, 08:33 PM
$180 for a pair of new 850CCA Interstate batteries with 42 month warranty from Costco. I'll get those this weekend.
My fried went and gave the truck a crank and it started on the 3rd 6 second try he said. The engine went straight to idle and sounded good with no smoke he reports. Go figure. That's good news at least
My fried went and gave the truck a crank and it started on the 3rd 6 second try he said. The engine went straight to idle and sounded good with no smoke he reports. Go figure. That's good news at least
#38
02-29-2016, 08:38 PM
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$180 for a pair of new 850CCA Interstate batteries with 42 month warranty from Costco. I'll get those this weekend.
My fried went and gave the truck a crank and it started on the 3rd 6 second try he said. The engine went straight to idle and sounded good with no smoke he reports. Go figure. That's good news at least
My fried went and gave the truck a crank and it started on the 3rd 6 second try he said. The engine went straight to idle and sounded good with no smoke he reports. Go figure. That's good news at least
Should be good from now on.Smart move on getting new batteries. I believe mine are 1100CCA each.
Keep that tender thing away from them, though. It's better for motorcycles and ATVs
#39
02-29-2016, 09:28 PM
I will be investigating the the tender thing. I'm actually using the CTEK MUS 3300 and MUS 4300, I don't believe those have the capacity you're describing though.
I'll follow up once I get my paws on my truck and check it out. Pretty excited to see/hear it run and go for a drive. Will have to un bury it from my friends shop first.
I'll follow up once I get my paws on my truck and check it out. Pretty excited to see/hear it run and go for a drive. Will have to un bury it from my friends shop first.
#40
02-29-2016, 10:18 PM
To summarize the steps of replacing the injectors I followed:
1) Drain coolant and the the fuel bowl
2) Evacuate the HPOP reservoir-I used the Milton siphon gun with 12" of 3/16" brake line in the tubing to direct through the glow plug and the injector cup.
3) Remove #7/8 Injectors and let the passages drain into those cylinders for 30minutes or more. I did not remove the small plugs.
4) Evacuate those cylinders
5) remove the remaining injectors and glow plugs and evacuate all cylinders
6) Clean the cups
7) pressurize the cooling system and spray silicone lube on the cups to look for signs of leaking
8) rotate engine by hand with the crank bolt to confirm the cylinders are empty
9) install injectors, glow plugs
10) leave UVCH uninstalled, fill HPOP reservoir, fill oil passages through HPOP line connections to reduce cranking time
11) crank engine 6-10 seconds at a time until oil pressure shows on the dash gauge
12) connect UVCh
13) continue cranking engine 6-10 seconds at a time until it starts.
1) Drain coolant and the the fuel bowl
2) Evacuate the HPOP reservoir-I used the Milton siphon gun with 12" of 3/16" brake line in the tubing to direct through the glow plug and the injector cup.
3) Remove #7/8 Injectors and let the passages drain into those cylinders for 30minutes or more. I did not remove the small plugs.
4) Evacuate those cylinders
5) remove the remaining injectors and glow plugs and evacuate all cylinders
6) Clean the cups
7) pressurize the cooling system and spray silicone lube on the cups to look for signs of leaking
8) rotate engine by hand with the crank bolt to confirm the cylinders are empty
9) install injectors, glow plugs
10) leave UVCH uninstalled, fill HPOP reservoir, fill oil passages through HPOP line connections to reduce cranking time
11) crank engine 6-10 seconds at a time until oil pressure shows on the dash gauge
12) connect UVCh
13) continue cranking engine 6-10 seconds at a time until it starts.
#41
02-29-2016, 10:53 PM
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Here's a link on battery charging.
Battery Charging Tutorial | ChargingChargers.com
The CTEK MUS 3300 is listed as a battery charger, not a tender, BUT it is a max of 3.3 amps
CTEK Multi US 3300 - CTEK Battery ChargersCTEK Battery Chargers
Battery Charging Tutorial | ChargingChargers.com
The CTEK MUS 3300 is listed as a battery charger, not a tender, BUT it is a max of 3.3 amps
CTEK Multi US 3300 - CTEK Battery ChargersCTEK Battery Chargers
#42
03-01-2016, 08:44 AM
Thank you for the link, that is very helpful. It tells me the chargers I have are really maintenance use only which is what I had intended them for. What I don't have, is a charger to bring a fully consumed battery to life. I'll probably be better off to buy the new batteries for now and let the truck manage the charging/maintenance it sounds like.
#43
03-01-2016, 09:21 AM
Fleet Owner
Nice work, you will have to let us know your thoughts on how it sounds and runs once you dig it out of the shop.
1. When you were evacuating the HPOP, you mentioned you mentioned you used a 12"- 3/16" brake line to direct through the glow plugs and injector cups. Does this mean that after evacuating the HPOP reservoir that you evacuated the cylinder thorough the glow plug ports and the cups as well prior to removing the injectors?
2. When cleaning the cups, did you use brake cleaner and a rag or were you forced to use some sort of brush due to their condition?
3. Why did you spray silicone lube on the cups when testing for leaks? Is this because you had drained most of the coolant out prior to this step? What would the silicone lube have done if there were a leak?
4. You removed the HPOP oil lines off the head and filled the rails from there? Would removing the plugs under the valve cover serve the same purpose?
Great advice for those of us that may be facing this maintenance in the future.
1. When you were evacuating the HPOP, you mentioned you mentioned you used a 12"- 3/16" brake line to direct through the glow plugs and injector cups. Does this mean that after evacuating the HPOP reservoir that you evacuated the cylinder thorough the glow plug ports and the cups as well prior to removing the injectors?
2. When cleaning the cups, did you use brake cleaner and a rag or were you forced to use some sort of brush due to their condition?
3. Why did you spray silicone lube on the cups when testing for leaks? Is this because you had drained most of the coolant out prior to this step? What would the silicone lube have done if there were a leak?
4. You removed the HPOP oil lines off the head and filled the rails from there? Would removing the plugs under the valve cover serve the same purpose?
Great advice for those of us that may be facing this maintenance in the future.
#44
03-01-2016, 10:17 AM
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Thank you for the link, that is very helpful. It tells me the chargers I have are really maintenance use only which is what I had intended them for. What I don't have, is a charger to bring a fully consumed battery to life. I'll probably be better off to buy the new batteries for now and let the truck manage the charging/maintenance it sounds like.
If your current batteries are giving you troubles, by all means get new, quality batteries first- they are critical to your truck's proper starting and operation.
When you have the funds and gumption, a quality battery charger is important to have at least one in your local group of buddies. They are easily borrowed and lent out, if that helps.
Glad you liked the charging link. So much happens automatically on vehicles, we never think about them too much until something goes wrong.
#45
03-01-2016, 08:32 PM
Nice work, you will have to let us know your thoughts on how it sounds and runs once you dig it out of the shop.
I should be able to get it tomorrow (3/2/16) evening.
1. When you were evacuating the HPOP, you mentioned you mentioned you used a 12"- 3/16" brake line to direct through the glow plugs and injector cups. Does this mean that after evacuating the HPOP reservoir that you evacuated the cylinder thorough the glow plug ports and the cups as well prior to removing the injectors?
Yes, but after the injectors.
2. When cleaning the cups, did you use brake cleaner and a rag or were you forced to use some sort of brush due to their condition?
I used the wire brush with some very fine scotch brite like pad of 1.5" and then wrapped some blue paper towel around for final cleaning. See prior pictures with the DeWalt drill.
3. Why did you spray silicone lube on the cups when testing for leaks? Is this because you had drained most of the coolant out prior to this step? What would the silicone lube have done if there were a leak?
Yep, coolant is drained so you need a liquid to bubble if there is an air leak. Silicone is a very safe fluid for this and easy to apply via spray can.
4. You removed the HPOP oil lines off the head and filled the rails from there? Would removing the plugs under the valve cover serve the same purpose?
This I did not do, but I think it's a good idea to remove a plug on each head in the same path as the HPOP lines to pre fill those passages. It would reduce crank time.
Great advice for those of us that may be facing this maintenance in the future.
I should be able to get it tomorrow (3/2/16) evening.
1. When you were evacuating the HPOP, you mentioned you mentioned you used a 12"- 3/16" brake line to direct through the glow plugs and injector cups. Does this mean that after evacuating the HPOP reservoir that you evacuated the cylinder thorough the glow plug ports and the cups as well prior to removing the injectors?
Yes, but after the injectors.
2. When cleaning the cups, did you use brake cleaner and a rag or were you forced to use some sort of brush due to their condition?
I used the wire brush with some very fine scotch brite like pad of 1.5" and then wrapped some blue paper towel around for final cleaning. See prior pictures with the DeWalt drill.
3. Why did you spray silicone lube on the cups when testing for leaks? Is this because you had drained most of the coolant out prior to this step? What would the silicone lube have done if there were a leak?
Yep, coolant is drained so you need a liquid to bubble if there is an air leak. Silicone is a very safe fluid for this and easy to apply via spray can.
4. You removed the HPOP oil lines off the head and filled the rails from there? Would removing the plugs under the valve cover serve the same purpose?
This I did not do, but I think it's a good idea to remove a plug on each head in the same path as the HPOP lines to pre fill those passages. It would reduce crank time.
Great advice for those of us that may be facing this maintenance in the future.