hey guys, unfortunately im back again, and at my whits end but hoping someone can help me narrow it down. i thought i had it licked but apparently not. So just to give the background again with a little more detail, the customer was driving down the road with no issues when the truck died suddenly and never started again. He towed it to his usual mechanic and he had it for three months but never got it to run. he said tested fuel pressure and that was good and found two broken wires but never got it running. So hoping i could fix it he towed it to me. I brought it in, charged batteries up, cranked monitoring ICP Desired and Actual, IPR % and Voltage, Desired would rise to 1700 or so and actual would stop at 550 and take a while to crank to that, IPR % rose to 84% and voltage was .48. So this being an 2003 to 2004 early 6.0 the ipr is under the turbo. I pulled the ipr and found that the screen was gone, i tried checking inside the ipr housing with a mirror but couldn't see the screen, the ipr housing is in a bad place anyway, and i also found that the two wires the mechanic before me had fixed just happened to be the IPR wires. they seem nicely done so and readings are good so i think its okay. so i put a new screen on the ipr, reoringd it and installed it and the readings were the same. So i pulled the passenger side valve cover, pulled the fitting out of the oil rail, blocked it off and cranked and ICP Desired rose to 1700 or so and Actual rose to 900 and the engine ran off the driver side bank that way. So i just incase, i air tested the HPO oil system and commanded the IPR shut with my scan tool and could hear gurgling under the turbo. I strongly leaned to towards the HPOP being bad at this time. So i ripped it down, pulled the HPOP cover, pulled the IPR and found the old screen, crammed deep inside the cover, i reinstalled the ipr, deciding i was this deep and talking to the customer about it all, we changed out the HPOP as well, the ball was still in place, the oring were kind of stiff, but didnt see evidence of any issues or blow by. Replaced all three HPOP o rings anyway ofcourse, put it all back together, without having my scan tool connected at this point i cranked it over a few times and it started and ran for on all 8 for a few seconds and died, cranked again and it fired up and ran for another 5 seconds or so, got my scan tool and cranked again as the tool was coming online, the truck ran and stalled again after 5 seconds. Stopped cranking and got my scan tool back online monitoring everything and started cranking again, it would not start again, ICP actual rose to 200 or so, desired is up at 1700 or so and same no start condition. I redid the air test, and it seemed to be leaking back at the pump again, so i ripped it back down, put air right to the new pump and could see air and oil coming out the seal in the back of the pump blowing against the gear, i deemed it a bad pump. I air tested the system as best i could while it was down to the pump, granted i can only pressurize the system to 120psi or so im thinking thats enough to show a leak. and did not hear anything from any o rings. So i exchanged the pump as a defective pump and they gave me a new pump for free, i changed it out again. and after cranking six times now, 20 seconds at a time, im getting relatively the same readings. FICM SYNCH is YES while cranking, voltage to it is at 48, ICP is topping out around 220, desired is 1810 or so, IPR voltage is sitting at .48 and % is at 84. So what am i missing? Is there an o ring i'm missing? The oil pressure gauge on the dash is coming up and i've held down the oil filter valve and it fills while cranking. There is no dummy plugs, i don't believe there is any stand pipes, the tube that connects to the top of the hpop seemed to carry all 125 psi of air to the pump well, i have the driver side valve cover off too and there doesn't seem to be any air leak on that side either. Does anybody have any idea's?? I'm sorry about the long story but i wanted to hit all my basis. Thanks in advance everybody.

 

Those pumps are known to be bad out of the box... heard of 4 tries to get a good one, it's not making pressure.

 

thats what i was thinking, its just a lot to chew. i am correct in thinking there is no other o rings to be bad between the pump and either oil rail right? and the tubes that are behind the hpop that feed either bank oil would show a leak with 125 psi on them? i even capped the line off to the pump and it held good air pressure from either bank. I feel alot better now anyway. Thank you for your reply ofcourse.

 

You would see a leak with an air test, and hear it. Those that a reman Ford pump? They're terrible. Keep exchanging or go aftermarket. You chased the leak to it, it's still there :P

 

lol thanks, its just driving me crazy you know? and then you second guess yourself, repeat tests, come up with the same answer and try again. Your right i chased it to the pump, thats exactly where it still is. and for others, I'm going with a pump through my carquest dealer, they have always taken care of me and still are. I let them know today this second pump was bad and they have another one on the way and filed a labor claim with them so the company can pay for this pump to be changed out twice. Sucks, i want to get this truck back to this guy.

 

Did you replace the discharge tube after the first HPOP?

Is it possible he has a bad cover that is trashing the o-ring?
Sorry if this seems like the obvious but trying to cover every angle.

 

well actually no i have not replaced the discharge tube but i thought my air test would show it leaking back there at its fitting if it was bad? i even drizzled oil on it while applying pressure and no bubbles formed. or is that not how you tell with the discharge tube? i tried to cover everything i could without having to come consult lol and after changing the pump the first time and having it start and die i too thought i may have damaged the O ring putting the hpop cover back on, i made sure to lube it with 5w40 oil a minute or so before setting the cover back on each time, just something ive always done working on 7.3s, and each time the cover set down nice and firm each time. then torqued the bolts. is that something that happens though? a cover can cause damage to that o ring naturally? i don't think thats it however as i checked the o ring when i pulled it, changing the pump the first time, it looked good inside and out with no signs of micro cracking for blow by. and i didn't see any damage changing it the second time thinking maybe i got sloppy. to keep the pump warranty good i changed the o rings each time anyway but. its a shame cuz i thought it went good.

 

An air test would have found it. This is not the first time someone has went through multiple reman 03-04 pumps. For the time and labour that your in there for, you could have put in an adrenaline HPOP and been done . Inspect the cover and tube the next time regardless of which pump goes back on, maybe there's something new going on

 

i was thinking the air test would of found it, when the next pump comes in i will definitely retest the tube and check the o ring and cover again. i did intimately check the cover the first time i had it off when i was looking for that screen but like you said i will check it again incase something happened with it coming on and off a few times now. am i just checking where the tube and o-ring stubb up into the cover for chafing? And, if i ever do have to take on another early 03-04 for a bad pump situation, i will definitely recommend an adrenaline or terminator pump. it not being my truck i wanted to go stock as thats what the truck is but for this reman reliability issue aftermarket is definitely the way to go. i just thought remans would have had stopped having that problem a long time ago. i have a terminator 500 in my 7.3 so i like them as well, an adrenaline was a close second choice for me though. or are adrenalines better in the 6.0's? I can tell you for as many times as i've had this thing apart i know the early 6.0's pretty good now. lol.

 

Have never heard of a terminator pump for a 6.0, reman will always be reman, which is shoving a broken part back together and using it again, in my eyes. Just checking the mating surfaces between the oring and the cover. For what it's worth adrenaline offers stock pump output

 

oh no kidding? lol well adrenaline it is then. i just figured terminator would have offered their own version of the pump. i will check the o ring and the mating surface when the next pump comes in and see whats up. and i agree, we wont rebuild some transmissions because we dont believe in rebuilding something that was junk from the factory and then trying to warranty it lol same idea i guess.