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  #31  
Old 02-22-2016, 12:56 AM
pgg00 pgg00 is offline
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I would also replace the rear main seal and the water pump as well
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  #32  
Old 02-22-2016, 11:35 AM
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I would also replace the rear main seal and the water pump as well
I forgot to mention those, yeah I'll definitely want to get those replaced as well. Maybe the oil pumps if they aren't super expensive. I don't know where they are located yet, but with the engine out, it would be a perfect time to do that.

I noticed my Bronco has the extra 4 relays for the trailer package next to the large fuse box, while the 95 F250 doesn't have them. Is that something that I can keep that will plug into the F250 harness? That would be pretty awesome if so!

I'm going to take my neighbor into town and then get back to removing the dash in the F250. I think I can get that done today so I'll post pictures up of the progress.
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  #33  
Old 02-22-2016, 01:22 PM
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I don't know if it will. My donor had both so i just swapped everything over
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  #34  
Old 02-22-2016, 07:00 PM
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A very interesting project indeed. I can't remember the last time I was under the hood of this generation of 7.3L. Come to think of it, I haven't really gotten my hands dirty under the hood of too many 6.0L/6.4L trucks in a while let alone a 7.3L. Reading through your posts just made me remember one thing that stood out about ZF5 equipped 7.3s though. The dual mass flywheel. It is HEAVY and prone to failure, along with expensive to replace. So with that in mind, I would suggest replacing with a replacement single mass unit, if such a thing exists. I remembered when they failed, you would have symptoms of very rough running (feeling a misfire) and unable to get into gear with the clutch depressed, etc.

Also, if you are planning on removing the timing gear cover for a reseal, you have to remove the oil pan first (the oil pickup is bolted to the bottom of the gear cover thereby necessitating pan removal to access). The oil pan is also sealed be only heavy duty silicone alone, so I strongly suggest doing this with the engine on a stand upside down and BONE DRY, as you apply the silicone and install the pan on to let sit overnight to cure properly. The last thing you want, is to have to re-do this part of the job once the engine is installed!!!

One last thing. If you plan on installing new O-rings on your eight injectors, make sure you remove the high pressure oil rail gallery plugs along with the fuel gallery plugs so fluids don't make their way into the cylinders or you will hydrolock your engine upon initial cranking.

Those are my 2 cents worth into this thread. Hope this helps and good luck.
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  #35  
Old 02-22-2016, 07:19 PM
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Last I knew you could get a LUK single mass flywheel and clutch set for under $400 for it
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  #36  
Old 02-22-2016, 08:37 PM
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A very interesting project indeed. I can't remember the last time I was under the hood of this generation of 7.3L. Come to think of it, I haven't really gotten my hands dirty under the hood of too many 6.0L/6.4L trucks in a while let alone a 7.3L. Reading through your posts just made me remember one thing that stood out about ZF5 equipped 7.3s though. The dual mass flywheel. It is HEAVY and prone to failure, along with expensive to replace. So with that in mind, I would suggest replacing with a replacement single mass unit, if such a thing exists. I remembered when they failed, you would have symptoms of very rough running (feeling a misfire) and unable to get into gear with the clutch depressed, etc.

Also, if you are planning on removing the timing gear cover for a reseal, you have to remove the oil pan first (the oil pickup is bolted to the bottom of the gear cover thereby necessitating pan removal to access). The oil pan is also sealed be only heavy duty silicone alone, so I strongly suggest doing this with the engine on a stand upside down and BONE DRY, as you apply the silicone and install the pan on to let sit overnight to cure properly. The last thing you want, is to have to re-do this part of the job once the engine is installed!!!

One last thing. If you plan on installing new O-rings on your eight injectors, make sure you remove the high pressure oil rail gallery plugs along with the fuel gallery plugs so fluids don't make their way into the cylinders or you will hydrolock your engine upon initial cranking.

Those are my 2 cents worth into this thread. Hope this helps and good luck.
Thank you for the advice! I'm going to buy a harbor freight engine stand and hope that it works for this beast. I read a bit of people go with the 1 ton stand and it works for them for a while. I'll make sure to put a few large pieces of wood and other soft materials under the engine in case the stand bends and breaks so it won't fall on concrete if that happens!

I plan on pulling the engine this weekend, maybe even friday, so I'll start working on the seals then. I want to get a lot of parts powder coated, but I have to wait for some funds to come in first. This means I'll have the engine sitting out for a few weeks probably, so is should be good and dry by the time I start resealing things!

I definitely will make sure to remove those plugs when doing those O-rings too! I don't quite know what the oil gallery plugs or fuel gallery plugs look like yet, but I'll learn! I'm new to this engine and diesels entirely, so there's a lot of stuff here that is foreign to me. Thanks again for the warning, that would be terrible to hydro-lock this engine after all the work I'm doing.

As for the clutch setup, it still has the dual mass setup. Apparently, the clutch setup is somewhat new, but I don't trust it. The transmission locked up and may or may not be salvageable. The clutch disk seems loose inside the pressure plate, which I don't think is suppose to happen. I know on a normal clutch setup on a single mass setup, the pressure plate holds the disk tight against the flywheel unless the clutch pedal is pressed in. I can physically move the clutch disk with my hand while it's still bolted up, and I can hear it bounce around when the was running (after I pulled the transmission.)

And pgg00, I did check and they do still make the LUK single mass conversions! That's good to hear too because I don't want to have to deal with the dual mass setup! I think rock auto has some for under 300 even! I put a LUK clutch kit in my 91 camaro and have had great success with it. I've had so much trouble with that car's transmission/clutch setup before this so I'm pretty happy with the LUK brand. The issues weren't really the clutch's fault before though. The P/O put in a V6 transmission behind a V8, and only used 2 out of the 4 bolts to secure the transmission to the car. This ended up destroying the pilot bearing which carved out the input shaft of the tranmission and wore out the input shaft bearing. When I got that fixed, the pivot ball and clutch fork were severely worn and I never bothered to check them. To add to that, I painted the throwout bearing retainer when I painted the new transmission I bought to replace the V6 one, so the throwout bearing couldn't ride across the retainer well enough to disengage the clutch..... I finally got that entire mess covered so the car is reliable enough to put my Bronco out of commission while this project is underway.

Anyways, here is the progress I made today:



I was surprised at how simple it was to remove that dash! At first, I was taking off the dash skin. I soon realized that was a mistake and found a walk-through on how to remove the whole dash! That was much easier!



I got the cluster, bezel, and gas pedal all in my room now, and set the dash aside on my driveway. I just need to get the engine wiring harness, the exhaust, and drop the fuel tank(s) to get the needed parts for the fuel system. Once the motor is pulled, I imagine it will be pretty easy to get the wiring harness out of the engine bay!

Anybody need any interior dash parts haha? I know I won't be needing this steering column, HVAC controls, glove box etc. so I have to figure out what to do with them. Selling them would be nice, but I don't think there is a good market for them so I'd rather give them away to someone here who may need them then have to toss them! I won't be tossing any parts until my Bronco is running with the Diesel though so I'll have them for a while if anyone needs them.
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  #37  
Old 02-22-2016, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Bubba Jones View Post
I definitely will make sure to remove those plugs when doing those O-rings too! I don't quite know what the oil gallery plugs or fuel gallery plugs look like yet, but I'll learn! I'm new to this engine and diesels entirely, so there's a lot of stuff here that is foreign to me. Thanks again for the warning, that would be terrible to hydro-lock this engine after all the work I'm doing.
With the valve covers removed, you should see the oil gallery plugs for the high pressure oil rails. They are very tiny allen head fasteners.

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Originally Posted by Bubba Jones View Post
As for the clutch setup, it still has the dual mass setup. Apparently, the clutch setup is somewhat new, but I don't trust it. The transmission locked up and may or may not be salvageable. The clutch disk seems loose inside the pressure plate, which I don't think is suppose to happen. I know on a normal clutch setup on a single mass setup, the pressure plate holds the disk tight against the flywheel unless the clutch pedal is pressed in. I can physically move the clutch disk with my hand while it's still bolted up, and I can hear it bounce around when the was running (after I pulled the transmission.)
Ummm......that's not supposed to happen on ANY manual transmission setup on any vehicle. I too, wouldn't trust that dual mass flywheel setup either. Due to the number of them I used to see fail on a fairly regular basis coming in for warranty replacements when they were new. As for a replacement goes, I am 100% with pgg00. Go with a LUK unit. That's the same brand I went with recently on a 2002 Mustang GT I replaced, when the OEM unit was no longer available. If I'm not mistaken, LUK is the OEM brand on quite few Ford products anyways, although I'm not sure if it is or not on this particular vehicle, but still a very reliable brand nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by Bubba Jones View Post
Anyways, here is the progress I made today:



I was surprised at how simple it was to remove that dash! At first, I was taking off the dash skin. I soon realized that was a mistake and found a walk-through on how to remove the whole dash! That was much easier!



I got the cluster, bezel, and gas pedal all in my room now, and set the dash aside on my driveway. I just need to get the engine wiring harness, the exhaust, and drop the fuel tank(s) to get the needed parts for the fuel system. Once the motor is pulled, I imagine it will be pretty easy to get the wiring harness out of the engine bay!

Anybody need any interior dash parts haha? I know I won't be needing this steering column, HVAC controls, glove box etc. so I have to figure out what to do with them. Selling them would be nice, but I don't think there is a good market for them so I'd rather give them away to someone here who may need them then have to toss them! I won't be tossing any parts until my Bronco is running with the Diesel though so I'll have them for a while if anyone needs them.
Wow!!! Looking at that fuse panel is really making me shake my head at how unbelievably simple it is, compared to the IPs on today's vehicles. You should see how much wiring and modules are involved on a 2011 and up 6.7L diesel F-250. If I'm not mistaken, your Bronco being based on a F-150 chassis also uses a Driver's air bag whereas the F-250 and up trucks of that era do not. Just to point out one detail I remember. But yes, you will most definitely need the dash harness and cluster to go along with this swap. The 7.3L redlines at 3200 RPMs if I recall correctly, and also has the tach to reflect as such.
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  #38  
Old 02-22-2016, 10:15 PM
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Okay, brainfart. You should add a new oil cooler along with those O-rings to your shopping list. Removing the whole front end cap and rear end cap/oil filter adapter will be a breeze with the engine out. It would be well advised to have the end caps installed onto the new oil cooler using a bearing press along with lots of Vaseline on the new O-rings as well as LOTS of finesse when pressing the caps on without tearing or nicking the new O-rings. Gawd, the memories of working on these engines is coming back to me a little bit now, from reading this thread.
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  #39  
Old 02-23-2016, 06:56 AM
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Don't forget the oil pan dip stick adapter.... major source of oil leaks
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  #40  
Old 02-24-2016, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by m-chan68 View Post
Okay, brainfart. You should add a new oil cooler along with those O-rings to your shopping list. Removing the whole front end cap and rear end cap/oil filter adapter will be a breeze with the engine out. It would be well advised to have the end caps installed onto the new oil cooler using a bearing press along with lots of Vaseline on the new O-rings as well as LOTS of finesse when pressing the caps on without tearing or nicking the new O-rings. Gawd, the memories of working on these engines is coming back to me a little bit now, from reading this thread.
I'll definitely have to do that. Where is the oil cooler located? I'ts not near the oil filter is it? I know the block heater plug is right there and it didn't seem like there was an oil cooler (I know they have oil coolers there on some gas vehicles.) I'll have to familiarize myself with that and I'll have to get a bearing press then too because I don't have any type of presses. I noticed the top of my engine has what I believe oil puddled up under the turbo area and in front of the fuel filter area too so I'll have to see what could be leaking from there.

Quote:
Don't forget the oil pan dip stick adapter.... major source of oil leaks
That's a good one too I'll make sure to take care of that. There seems to be the most buildup of gunk on the drivers side area all along the front to the back under the manifold area (like where the fuel rails meet in the front, all along that side to the back.) What could be leaking oil on that side? It may be possible that it was the power steering pump stuff leaking and blowing it down around that side though because the power steering hose area was super gunked up. I'm glad I'm not cleaning that area of the frame/etc. up on my Bronco.

Anyways here is the progress I made today:



That's my professional towing job. I moved it like 100 feet and had to place the steering column loosely around the shaft to turn the F250 wheels. I had to get in and out a whole bunch to make adjustments because I had no helpers today. It got far enough to get onto pavement though which is all I needed!



I almost forgot to undo the fuel lines when pulling the engine forward. I had the bright idea of leaving the starter in too when I pulled the engine. It barely cleared with the starter in place. I'll definitely make sure that I pull it before installing the engine. I was wondering why it wasn't wanting to move any further forward when I was pulling! You can see here this area is pretty grimy with oil/junk too. The front end area where the two fuel rails meet was the dirtiest of all. I don't know what could be leaking oil around that area except from the power steering pump. Hopefully it was just that making a mess. I'll have to figure out how to prevent it from leaking when I install the engine.

This is where it was getting stuck from the starter/fuel rails. Once those were out of the way, it was "pretty easy" to roll it forward:



I'm amazed at how much oil these things hold too.. it seems like 4 gallons came out because the white 5 gallon bucket I used is pretty full. I read these only hold 3 gallons but maybe it's more?

Last but not least!!



Just in time for sunset too! I was thinking I'd get everything pulled and could move the truck back off the concrete today but I left it at that. I have the whole exhaust unbolted, but I couldn't get it around the rear axle so I'll have to cut it up. It has to be cut anyways to meet the length of my Bronco, I just wanted to avoid cutting it in the meantime because it's a hassle to do, but I'll have to cut it out sometime this weekend. After I get the exhaust out, I'll just have to take out what I need from the fuel tank(s) and I should have everything I need from the parts truck! I'll have to look up exactly what I need from the fuel tanks on the car as well. I think there is an external pump I'll have to take, but I'll have to look up what else is needed!
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  #41  
Old 02-25-2016, 01:25 AM
pgg00 pgg00 is offline
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Now the fun part. Engine work
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  #42  
Old 02-26-2016, 09:51 PM
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Well I got nothing done on the powerstroke today. I did end up finding the oil cooler has a pressure relief valve that is missing on the engine, so I need to get a new oil cooler or at least end cap... Unfortunately that is going to bring up my parts list another 100-200 dollars. I read that having this missing can cause low oil pressure and some starting issues. To me, that's a "good" sign because the truck still seemed a little too hard to start after replacing the burned UHVC harness plugs. That means it should start better when replaced and at least I figured out where the oil cooler and seals are now too! I also bought two cans of brake cleaner so I can start cleaning the outside of the engine!

If I got this correct, I think all the seals on the engine include:

Fuel:

Injector O-rings
Maybe fuel filter O-rings (the one on top of the block)?

Coolant:

Water Pump gasket
Thermostat Housing gasket

Oil:

Turbo Pedestal O-rings
Rear Main Seal
Front Main Seal
Timing Cover Seal
Oil Pan
Oil Pan Dipstick Adapter
HPOP O-rings
Oil Cooler Seals (O-rings and end cap seals)



I haven't decided I'm going to do them all yet but I might. It looks as if the oil pan, front main, and rear main seals aren't leaking either. If those aren't leaking, I don't know if I want to take them apart. Maybe I should, but I'm afraid I may jinx something if I do, plus it adds more money to parts! Maybe someone should persuade me either way to do or not do them!

Someone I was talking with said if I do change the oil pan seal, it would be a good idea to change the rod bearings for insurance. Does anyone agree with this and would it be a simple process? I don't know if I feel comfortable taking that apart if it involves more than unbolting, putting up the bearings, and then torquing the bolts back to spec.
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  #43  
Old 02-27-2016, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Bubba Jones View Post
Well I got nothing done on the powerstroke today. I did end up finding the oil cooler has a pressure relief valve that is missing on the engine, so I need to get a new oil cooler or at least end cap... Unfortunately that is going to bring up my parts list another 100-200 dollars. I read that having this missing can cause low oil pressure and some starting issues. To me, that's a "good" sign because the truck still seemed a little too hard to start after replacing the burned UHVC harness plugs. That means it should start better when replaced and at least I figured out where the oil cooler and seals are now too! I also bought two cans of brake cleaner so I can start cleaning the outside of the engine!
Everything highlighted in bold red above is absolutely true. I had noticed the oil pressure relief ball in the oil filter housing had looked like it was missing in the photo above, but didn't have the time to comment on it until now. Now the million dollar question is, WHERE DID THE MISSING PART GO?

These engines don't have an ECT or CKP sensors either. The PCM reads only CMP, EBP, EOT and ICP if I recall correctly. Memory thing. If you buy the rear main seal from Ford (part number F4TZ-6701-A), it also includes a tube of heavy duty Navistar grey silicone sealer as well. This is the silicone that seals the oil pan to the engine block. If the budget allows for it, I would recommend removing the oil pan, and re-sealing everything while it's out and the engine bone dry of all fluids to allow the silicone to cure properly. Once cured, I would recommend painting the engine DT466 blue, or whatever colour you desire using the appropriate engine paint capable of withstanding the heat, with a few coats.
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Old 02-27-2016, 01:16 PM
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If the engine appears solid i wouldn't touch the rod bearings. Just reseal it. Paint and replace the maintenance type items while you have it out then run it. If you plan on doing major boost then now is the time for headstuds etc
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Old 02-27-2016, 05:47 PM
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Everything highlighted in bold red above is absolutely true. I had noticed the oil pressure relief ball in the oil filter housing had looked like it was missing in the photo above, but didn't have the time to comment on it until now. Now the million dollar question is, WHERE DID THE MISSING PART GO?

These engines don't have an ECT or CKP sensors either. The PCM reads only CMP, EBP, EOT and ICP if I recall correctly. Memory thing. If you buy the rear main seal from Ford (part number F4TZ-6701-A), it also includes a tube of heavy duty Navistar grey silicone sealer as well. This is the silicone that seals the oil pan to the engine block. If the budget allows for it, I would recommend removing the oil pan, and re-sealing everything while it's out and the engine bone dry of all fluids to allow the silicone to cure properly. Once cured, I would recommend painting the engine DT466 blue, or whatever colour you desire using the appropriate engine paint capable of withstanding the heat, with a few coats.
Haha I don't know where the missing parts went.. I hope that they can't end up somewhere in the engine. The previous owner said he recently changed the oil and put in a new oil filter. I'm hoping that those parts fell out when he did that and he didn't know what they were or forgot to try and install them correctly.

The truck before was having a hard time starting, so he figured it was glow plugs. He said he had the injectors tested as well and that all were in specs, but two were a little bit lower than the rest (still tested good though.) I do know the glow plug relay wasn't working, and the drivers side glow plug harness was partially melted, so I fixed those. With those working, the truck started much better but still seemed to struggle. I'm hoping it is now from that missing thing on the oil cooler.

I'm not quite sure of all the abbreviations yet, so I'll have to look those up to see which sensors they refer to. I'm a little nervous to do the rear main seal because I've messed those up before, but with the engine out it shouldn't be too bad. I've also had oil pan gaskets leak on me, but if the engine is dry, I think pure silicon will be a much less likely thing to leak.

On top of the engine, I believe there was fuel sitting there, and not oil. I took out the fuel bowl today and will take it apart soon once I get the O-rings ordered. There might be some oil leaking too on the very rear part of the HPOP (there is a large 3"ish diameter section with a large snap ring holding it in place. It appears as if that MIGHT have a slight oil leak coming from it.) The HPOP fittings don't seem to be wet, and it has a re-manufactured sticker on it so I'm guess they have been changed recently. I originally thought the turbo pedestal may have been leaking, but it seems pretty dry up and around there. I think it was just diesel fuel coming back from the front area.

Quote:
If the engine appears solid i wouldn't touch the rod bearings. Just reseal it. Paint and replace the maintenance type items while you have it out then run it. If you plan on doing major boost then now is the time for headstuds etc
My turbo blades (whichever is the first thing you see when you take off the air filter ducting) have some damage to them, so I was potentially thinking of getting a different turbo. I don't know the cost of that, or the cost of having mine rebuilt (or at least those blades replaced), so I'll have to see when I get around to that. I wasn't planning on doing much more with boost and wouldn't want to complicate the system too much with that so I probably won't touch any of the rod bearings etc. then.

I spent a few hours trying to mess with the engine and clean it today.... it seems like it will take me weeks to get this thing an acceptable cleanliness. I may skimp on the cleaning and just spray over it after a while. I do plan on trying to get off as much dirt and grime as I can, but when it comes down to the nooks and crannies and scraping doesn't help much, it gets pretty tedious. I'm hoping I can spray some hi temp engine paint over those parts and call it good.



As a side note, I was thinking of taking off the manifolds all the way to the turbo to help clean while I have things off. I do want to make the engine look nice so I was considering ceramic coating the exhaust up to the turbo. Will there be any benefit besides cosmetics to do this? Also, should I get new bolts at my local hardware store after taking the old ones off?
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