Go Back  Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Older, Classic & Antique Trucks > 1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks
Reload this Page >

Truck Idle Issues...Please Help. Need Fixed ASAP. Details and Video Inside!

Notices
1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 1987 - 1996 Ford F-150, F-250, F-350 and larger pickups - including the 1997 heavy-duty F250/F350+ trucks

Truck Idle Issues...Please Help. Need Fixed ASAP. Details and Video Inside!

 
  #1  
Old 02-15-2016, 09:53 PM
street591
street591 is offline
New User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 5
street591 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Truck Idle Issues...Please Help. Need Fixed ASAP. Details and Video Inside!

I'm having issues with getting the truck to idle smoothly. The truck in question is a 1996 F250 with the 5.8L/351W. The 351 is backed by an Automatic and dual tank setup. Mileage is quite low on the truck around roughly 60,000 miles.

To start off, I chose last year to do a thorough maintenance and perform the upgrades on the 5.8L. I decided to NOT bump the timing as some guys have done. This included:

-New Spark Plugs
-FRPP Spark Plug Wires
-Distributor Cap & Rotor
-Ignition Module/Coil
-Oil & Filter Change
-Fuel Filter Change
-Air Filter
-Top Off All Fluids



Fast forward a handful of months later, while continuously moving the truck around the driveways almost daily, the issues began. Truck started off becoming harder to start progressively. Then, started to not want to fire up at all. As it increasingly became harder and eventually wouldn't fire, I started to dig back into it.

Step 1: Changed the Fuel Filter and Fuel Pressure Regulator.


Nothing. Made little to no difference and had the same issues.


Step 2: Changed the Front Tank Fuel Pump.


With this new pump installed, pressure went from reading in the 20s, back up to a solid 35-40. Truck ran great....for a few weeks.

At this point, it became to have starting issues again. Check fuel pressure and it was still good. Also, seemed to have an odd smell.


Step 3: Changed out the EGR valve in hopes it would help.


Nothing.


Step 4: At this point, I had a hard time finding enough free time to research, troubleshoot, and repair the truck. So I decided to take it to the dealership.


When it was there, they changed the fuel filter, again. They also supposedly flushed the lines and got the "bad" fuel out of it. At this point they said it started up and ran but still ran rough. They stated that the CAT was glowing red and should be replaced. They also suggested changing injectors stating a handful were bad and 3 of them "didn't work at all". They came back with a price of $3200 to swap injectors at which point I told them to get bent and picked the truck up.


Step 5: Changed all 8 Injectors. Decided to listen to the Ford Tech and change them all out. None really looked bad, some had very little debris in the screens and all of them had good Ohm resistance when tested.


With the injectors changed, I had a little bit of hope thinking they may have been right. Ended up making absolutely no difference what-so-ever.

After this I decided to pull the newer plugs and check them out. Ground one plug out and checked the spark. Looked to be side arcing and low on spark so they were all changed....again.


Step 6: Change all 8 Spark Plugs, again.


As soon as the plugs were changed, I again grounded one out and had good spark again. The drivers side rear plugs had a good bit of fuel on them as well as in the cylinder. I assume they were fouled. Turn the truck over and after a little bit of work, she was back to life! Sat there and idled, blew a little white smoke but seemed to have cleared up after awhile. Even though the truck idled, it was a ROUGH idle. Hmm....figured the CAT might have been clogged causing the backfire/rough idle. After running awhile, the welds on the CAT were in fact glowing cherry red!

Step 7: Disconnect the O2 sensor, nothing. Disconnect the CAT and run an open Y pipe. Nothing, besides alot of noise.


The truck at this point seemed to still have a remaining faint white smoke but it ran. It would drive up and down the street with no apparent loss in power. It almost sounded though as if it had a tick, or an exhaust leak. Possibly from the open Y pipe? At this point, it was still idling....ROUGH.



CURRENT: Truck is sitting with the very rough idle, faint whiteish smoke, and exhaust leak type sound. As I stated, it will sit there and idle all day long but sounds like it has a stage 3 cam in it.


POSSIBLE PROBLEMS? (Just Spitballing Here):

-Head Gasket
-Spark Plug Wires
-Firing Order (even though I doublechecked it, I could triple check)
-O2 sensor
-CPS (if the truck has one, it has no OBD2, just OBD1)
-Vacuum Leak




No codes in the KOEO (key on, engine off) current memory. Only 2 codes in the stored memory which was 332 and 542.


VIDEO
(not my truck, but sounds EXACTLY like this):


 
  #2  
Old 02-15-2016, 10:16 PM
danr1
danr1 is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sand Lake, MI
Posts: 5,640
danr1 has a great reputation on FTE.danr1 has a great reputation on FTE.danr1 has a great reputation on FTE.danr1 has a great reputation on FTE.danr1 has a great reputation on FTE.
Running too rich by the sounds of things and to the extent excessive amounts of unburnt fuel is getting to and burnt by the Cat making it glow red hot.

Pull off the vac line to the brake booster give it some unmetered air see what that does for it idle wise. Might not be enough to make a huge difference but if it is rich it should smooth it out a little.

First best guess on what know so far, either a MAF issue of some sort or the computer has problems.

Un burnt fuel down the exhaust system would have done some damage to the O2 sensor too I'd think, to the point of rendering it near useless?

Run the self test pulling any stored codes, see what if anything the computer tells you about it.

Oh and taking it to Ford dealer was a compete waste of time, doubt you'll make that mistake again!
 
  #3  
Old 02-15-2016, 10:31 PM
wtroger
wtroger is offline
Postmaster
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 3,073
wtroger is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.wtroger is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
First I wouldn't have changed the icm or coil. I would put the old ones back on and see what happens. Get the codes pulled see if there any issues. If it is miss firing or running rich it will make the cats glow. Check that you have the firing order correct.
 
  #4  
Old 02-15-2016, 10:38 PM
Duvaren's Avatar
Duvaren
Duvaren is offline
Junior User
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 64
Duvaren is starting off with a positive reputation.
Check the Mass Air Flow sensor?
 
  #5  
Old 02-16-2016, 08:45 AM
street591
street591 is offline
New User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 5
street591 is starting off with a positive reputation.
I will try pulling off the brake booster line to see if that changes anything.


I'm also gonna triple check the firing order and do a spark test on each wire.


I agree the truck is getting way too much fuel for some reason and I can't figure it out. I can change the O2 sensor but I'm not sure that would help?


No MAF on this truck. It must be an early 95 build date and 96 model year because it has OBD1, not OBD2 and the dual separate intake tubes, not the Y style configuration. What affect would changing the MAP sensor have? AKA speed density.
 
  #6  
Old 02-16-2016, 09:01 AM
POLARISrider500
POLARISrider500 is offline
Junior User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 75
POLARISrider500 is starting off with a positive reputation.
this thing have a map or is that just speed density? id check that if it does. i second MAF tho
 
  #7  
Old 02-16-2016, 09:07 AM
danr1
danr1 is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sand Lake, MI
Posts: 5,640
danr1 has a great reputation on FTE.danr1 has a great reputation on FTE.danr1 has a great reputation on FTE.danr1 has a great reputation on FTE.danr1 has a great reputation on FTE.
Scratch....

I wouldn't replace the O2 sensor just yet, wait until its running better. Its not used during cold startup, if you do anything with it just unplug it for now but doubt that's even necessary at this point.
 
  #8  
Old 02-16-2016, 09:10 AM
POLARISrider500
POLARISrider500 is offline
Junior User
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 75
POLARISrider500 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Originally Posted by danr1 View Post
Your truck is mass air can see the maf sensor in the video/picture, its right there at the air filter box.

Run the codes and post the results.

It might be OBD1 it might be OBD2, it might be OBD1 with the OBD2 connector, post us some pictures under the dash on the driver side and picture near the driver side hood hinge so we can see what you have there.

A mass air 351 has gotta be kinda rare depending on where you live of course.

I wouldn't replace the O2 sensor just yet, wait until its running better. Its not used during cold startup, if you do anything with it just unplug it for now.
thats what i tell everyone but usually no one does, you gotta communicate with the truck...
 
  #9  
Old 02-16-2016, 09:20 AM
BLDTruth's Avatar
BLDTruth
BLDTruth is offline
Senior User
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Oregon
Posts: 237
BLDTruth is starting off with a positive reputation.
It's speed density and he already pulled codes - the video in the first post is not his truck.

One of those codes is a bad fuel pump circuit....might want to look into that.
 
  #10  
Old 02-16-2016, 09:33 AM
danr1
danr1 is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sand Lake, MI
Posts: 5,640
danr1 has a great reputation on FTE.danr1 has a great reputation on FTE.danr1 has a great reputation on FTE.danr1 has a great reputation on FTE.danr1 has a great reputation on FTE.
Originally Posted by BLDTruth View Post
It's speed density and he already pulled codes - the video in the first post is not his truck.

One of those codes is a bad fuel pump circuit....might want to look into that.
Oh crap no I didn't see that little note, thought it was his truck. Why post a video of someone else's truck.....

Read the post but relied on the video too.

Are those codes new/recent or?

Neither one of them would tend to make your truck run like that other guys truck.
 
  #11  
Old 02-16-2016, 10:20 AM
street591
street591 is offline
New User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 5
street591 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Those codes are not in the current memory. They're in the live stored memory. I assume it's from when the original fuel pump went out, which I've already replaced.

I posted the other truck because I don't have a video of mine, it's being stored in a buddy's garage until I can get back down there to look at it, and that's the only video I found that sounded identical.
 
  #12  
Old 02-16-2016, 10:44 AM
danr1
danr1 is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Sand Lake, MI
Posts: 5,640
danr1 has a great reputation on FTE.danr1 has a great reputation on FTE.danr1 has a great reputation on FTE.danr1 has a great reputation on FTE.danr1 has a great reputation on FTE.
Originally Posted by street591 View Post
Those codes are not in the current memory. They're in the live stored memory. I assume it's from when the original fuel pump went out, which I've already replaced.

I posted the other truck because I don't have a video of mine, it's being stored in a buddy's garage until I can get back down there to look at it, and that's the only video I found that sounded identical.
Yea assumed they where old and didn't find anywhere is your OP where you said anything about clearing them and or having the battery disconnnected for some other reason.

If you get a system pass for both KOEO and CM (after clearing those codes, or not, leaving them would have no effect), run the KOER test and see what it tells you.

Based on everything you listed you've either checked/tested and or replaced and so far nothing thrown for MAP, at a minimum I'd pull its computer check it for obvious signs of trouble. Not finding budging leaking caps doesn't necessary mean its ok but finding them in that condition quickly removes all doubt.

If the board is otherwise ok any leakage hasn't damaged it or much at all if it has, your fairly confident is is the original computer, repairing it is the better option over any replacement you might find.

Replacing the caps is a fairly simple task using soldering iron (low wattage), capacitors are cheap and very easy to get.
 
  #13  
Old 02-16-2016, 03:51 PM
street591
street591 is offline
New User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 5
street591 is starting off with a positive reputation.
I'm going to try to look at the truck this evening. I will perform the following:

-Verify Firing Order
-Verify Spark @ Every Plug
-Check the Oil to Rule Out a Bad Head Gasket being the Cause of Smoke
-Try to Verify the Timing
-Pull KOER Codes
-Determine Ticking Noise Location (Eliminate Cracked Manifold, Head, or Lifter)


Later in the Week if nothing comes about this round of troubleshooting I'll perform the following more time consuming tests:

-Leakdown Test
-Compression Test
-Smoke Test for Vacuum Leak



Anything else I should try to get done this evening?
 
  #14  
Old 02-17-2016, 12:00 AM
street591
street591 is offline
New User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 5
street591 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Firing order is right. Head gaskets good.

Truck fired right up, ran like a stage 3 cam was in it, died and won't restart. Lots of fuel in the cylinder #8.

Any ideas? At least how to get it started and outside
 
 
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
rknight29
1994.5 - 1997 7.3L Power Stroke Diesel
4
04-11-2017 05:45 PM
OldGoldie
1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks
6
02-05-2017 08:26 PM
cayenne
2017+ Super Duty
4
02-05-2017 01:21 PM
riggz
6.0L Power Stroke Diesel
137
12-16-2016 12:23 PM
Miguel P
General Automotive Discussion
1
09-28-2016 06:16 AM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Truck Idle Issues...Please Help. Need Fixed ASAP. Details and Video Inside!


Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.