Well, my life of 2 steps forward, 1 back, continues. Or is that 1 step forward, 2 back?
A couple years ago I was doing this...

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...o-reverse.html

After Jk080's last post in that thread...

I had this truck running fantastic, for about 100 miles. It was a fluid level problem. Then the tranny started slipping so I drained the fluid, pulled the pan an woah, the filter had dropped out of its seating. This time I made sure the filter and the port where it goes in was all fully cleaned/reamed and the filter was snug in there. I refilled with same fluid, but it never quite was as it was. I dicked with the level until it was 'ok', I could do burnouts, but then it left me on the roadside with no drive one night. I had it towed home and it hasn't moved since.

I drained and pulled the pan, again, but this time the filter was still intact. It was like someone had triggered a remote disable on the transmission. When I got this truck it had a security system on it that I have since removed. It's like the TCC is not engaging. I have a pressure gauge hooked up to that little pressure port and it is reading zero! At idle and at some throttle.

Is this indicative of a bad torque converter? How do those actually fail? Might a fresh filter and fluid help clear the lines of all the junk that was in there before my rebuild? How do I tell if the pressure pump is messed up?

Damn, I love truck. I start it up and rev it sitting in the driveway. It sounds so good after all the engine work I did. The tranny was shifting perfectly, kicking down and up and working properly with the OD switch. Now it wont do anything.

I don't want to drop this tranny again, but I'm a lot less afraid of doing that now. Is it possible that it's just electric or just the torque converter? I think if I do have to take it out again I'm going to look for a 5-speed swap.

Oh, I'm guessing this has absolutely nothing to do with the transfer case?

As always, comments most appreciated. I'm gonna go drain and pull the pan now.

Jeff.

 

Uh oh, bad sign.
If the TCC engages and the truck is in gear and not moving the engine will stall, just as if you dump the clutch on a manual trans. So no, the TCC is NOT engaging, but it shouldn't be engaged until you're at about 40 MPH.

That's what we call a really, really bad sign.

No, it is not.

No, it will not. All that changing fluid will do now is cost you more money.

There are two ways. One is to take the trans out and remove the pump for inspection. The other way is to put a pressure gauge on the test port. If it reads zero with the engine running the pump isn't working.

There are a couple reasons the pump may not work. The pump could be dead, the shaft could have broken, or the flex plate could have broken.

That's what happens when you have zero pressure.

No, it is not possible. See the quote two above this one.
That will keep you busy for awhile, but you won't find much useful info in there.

 

Thanks Mark.

Uh oh?

That it could do burnouts? Or that it could, then it couldn't, with no fluid pressure?

I spent quite a bit of time shoveling the snow away from around the truck. I drained the fluid but decided to not take the pan off since I had already done this before to verify the filter was still on there. Would I see NO pressure if the fluid level was a little low? I think I only drained about 12-14 liters, but I was seeing no fluid pressure when I checked if the filter was still attached.

I'm going to start taking out the transmission tomorrow. I should see the torque plate sheared off if that is going on, no? Although, there's no nasty noise, and wasn't any nasty noise when it failed.

If I recall, the pump is at the top/front/beginning of the rebuild so I may not have to go all the way down in there again to get this fixed? A broken shaft is going to be immediately visible also?

What are the 'bad sign' and 'really bad signs' about? I mean, If it has to come out and come apart, that's as bad as it gets, right?

 

yeah just pull the trans and look for the obvious first.a broken shaft is stupid easy to fix.it just pulls right out and you stick a new one right in.of course depending on where it broke it might take some work to draw it out.
if you pull that out and it's all intact,then set it aside and stand the trans on it's tail.remove the pan,the filter and then remove the pump bolts and then remove the pump.don't pry on the back of the pump with a screwdriver against that small section of trans or you'll snap it and render the trans junk!!!!
your supposed to use a slide hammer to pull the pump.however if you use a short screwdriver to lay across the valve bodies and then use the large screwdriver to pry on the short one and the back of the pump,that's safe to do and the pump will pop out.
LISTEN!
do not remove the pump without the trans upright or parts will fall out,and they are extremely difficult to line back up and put back in!

next,with the pump out,remove the bolts holding the 2 half's together and split it with the pump laying flat.leave the gears inside and snap some pics.

 

Uh oh that you did burnouts. You had fluid pressure when doing burnouts, or the trans would have been in neutral.

If the level is below the pickup on the filter you will see no pressure.

I don't know what a torque plate is. Do you mean flex plate? If that broke you will see that when you take the trans out.

Yes and yes.

Yes, pretty much. Sometimes it means hard parts are damaged and the rebuild costs even more.

 

if your flexplate broke,you'd know it lol.it's very,very loud.you'd think your engine was about to blow.
i just had mine crack on log truck ('93 f450 idi/e4od) this last summer.

 

Well, it's out, and ready for move investigation.
I thought I'd throw out these pics, especially of the torque converter.
Does it look ok? I mean, it looks like it might have run a few turns without being 'set'?
I don't see how these things (torque converters) can actually fail. It's like a solid state unit, isn't it? Does it wear? I can turn the inner sprocket -thing. Is that good or bad?

Can this all be summed up as a BAD/FAILED/BROKEN TORQUE CONVERTER? I wish.

Stop me before I remove the pump. ;-)











I was so serious about doing a 5speed conversion I went out and got the first one I found on Craig's list. I don't usually do impulse buys like that, but that was my long term goal for this truck. Now I'm collecting all the other stuff I need, such as the pedal and gearshift.

But NOW I'm thinking I'm just a few bolts and parts away from getting the truck back on the road with the E4OD. Whatever I can do that faster and cheaper with is the real priority now.














So, no, driveshaft not broken. No, flex-plate intact....

I used RTV silicone on the nut holes and some other seals. Was this an oh-no no no?

I'm gonna crack that pump off now. I gotsa see!!!

 

Those photos are so blurry I can't tell anything.
Just like an engine is a solid state unit. There are moving parts in both. They can break.

Yes.

I can't tell from here.

Then I don't think you'll find the problem.

Yes, it is. Some of it can get loose and plug critical orifices and/or cause valves to stick. It does bad things if it gets into the trans.

 

typically when a converter fails you'll know because they make bad noises and you'll get shavings in the atf/pan.
you used rtv where specifically? don't forget the filter fits into the pump,so the pump can't come out without first removing the filter.and don't pry against that thin section of the case.

 

Well, the rtv was used just around the pump bolt holes and seal. You can see some of it hanging like slimey spiderweb on the outside of the pump. Hard to say if any got IN to the actual workings of the transmission, but I'd say it is a possibility that some may have gotten into the pump itself?

These pics also show at least one failed thrust bearing. The first one I have uncovered, that sits right behind the pump.

I've pulled out that idle clutch assembly (?). Where that thrust bearing scored into the idle clutch housing? sprocket?.

So, I have this failure up here. I'm guessing it's 'cause of a lack of lubrication.

Is there maintenance/inspection of the inards of the pump itself? Might I be so lucky to just find a problem within the pump, replace or repair, and replace that thrust bearing?

Do I need to have that idle case/sprocket, where that thrust bearing gouged up, turned or polished or something?

Yeah, pos camera. Or operator. Trying to get closups in low light it seems to crank the speed down so you can't move at all or it blurs. Dang flash is so bright that you get pictures of glare. But I digress...

 

so you had the pump out before then,that's why rtv is on there now?

 

Yes, I've had this trans apart before. I originally had no reverse, and that part was at the bottom of my first ever transmission rebuild which I did late 2014, but didn't put more than 100 or so miles on it before this failure.

Well, I took the pump apart and it looks like the converter hub bushing 7B258 and possibly seal 7A248 are prematurely worn/failed.

Most telling, however, is the Inner Geroter Gear 7C010 is damaged on the inside where it looks as though the torque converter coupling/tube is supposed to fit into some notches in the inner geroter. I'm not sure how this would affect things because, doesn't the front driveshaft connect through all this also?

Anyway, the geroter and the torque converter tube, well, the tube would spin freely (albiet in an awkward oblong warble) within the inner geroter. I don't think this is right. So, it wouldn't in turn be turning the outer gerotor, which I believe somehow drives the pump or fluid through the pump.

So, does this sound possible? That the flex plate and torque converter and even the idle clutch would be spinning but the torque converter is not properly engaged to the pump. There'd be no fluid pressure but there wouldn't be much heat generated because the truck could not engage any gears to get going.

I'm charging camera batteries.

I'm wondering how far down to go looking for more trouble. That one thrust bearing is clearly trashed, and I found some shards from it where it sits behind the pump. The fluid was fresh, although I'm not sure I'm going to reuse it, again. There was no metal in the pan or filter, very little black dust.

 

By the way the washer looks I am thinking that when you reassembled the transmission something didn't get fully seated or engaged and you lost all your end clearance. So when you bolted down the pump it put the gear train in a bind and smoked the washer.

You should take it down to at least the center support and replace the coast clutch drum if you can't clean up the damage.

The pump damage sounds like you didn't get the converter all the way in before bolting it to the engine.

If the pump is trashed it might be time for that manual conversion you been talking about.

 

Yes jk, it would appear that the torque converter wasn't fully seated into the pump gear.









I'm obviously still having trouble with this camera.

I'm thinking I can get away with just that inner geroter? I'd hate to think the torque converter is trashed because just that end isn't notched properly? Is there a way to FIX that end? My untrained eye doesn't see any other damage in the pump.

I'll need that thrust bearing and the converter hub bushing. and maybe that idle gear case (coast clutch drum?). I will go down and look to the center support to see if there are more parts visibly damaged.

Right now, depending on whether I need a new or rebuilt torque converter I think it might be cheaper to pursue the 5 speed. I still need a master/slave setup, a clutch kit, and I'm not sure about driveshaft modifications.

 

oh man.all the rebuild and then you just didn't seat the converter.oh well,crap happens.
you'll need a new pump and converter.
im limping my original e40d along in log truck ('93 f450,idi,e40d)
i installed a used front pump and a reman converter.
check out the prices on what i used;
E4OD 7 3L 6 9L Diesel Torque Converter 4 Stud Transmission E40D Remanufactured | eBay

then i just used a used '95+ (high volume F5) pump on ebay too but you can get remans there.
E4OD Pump Body incl Gears Cast RFE9 RFF1 RFF5 SKU 36510CA | eBay

Ford Truck E4OD E40D Transmission Front Pump Seal Kit | eBay


latter on i scored a ford reman e4 but im keeping it until needed.for now the nearly 200k unit is still kicking,thanks to some dirty work......and lots of trail and error.
then after all that,i had to pull it again to replace a broken flexplate! lol!


don't use any RTV this time.that's a no no.spin the converter while pushing for a full 30 seconds for good measure.a good rule of thumb is,if you don't think the converter is fully seated......it isn't.

that thrust washer,that's not the stator washer is it? it looks like it has a ring where it's supposed to just be a flat washer.or is that from deeper in? could just be because the pic isn't very clear.

really if you want the zf5 manual trans,now is probably a good time to just do it.however,before a reman of the auto,that would of been a better time,so.your call.probably a coin flip.i hate manuals so lol.