Hey guys, first post here. I've been a bmw guy all my life and my dad always drove fords so naturally I own both. However, every body has to appreciate the simplicity, reliability and capability of a cummins. So, here's my situation...

I own a 2004 F250 super duty 4x4 off road with an automatic transmission and the 6.slow psd. I love my truck, I love the amazing sound of the 6.0 and it's been very impressive given the few mods I've done. But like all tuned 6 liters with 300k miles, the transmission is starting to get a little sloppy and I'm starting to lose a little bit of coolant (very little as of now but will continue to worsen). It has all original head gaskets, injectors, ficm, etc so it's really just a matter of time before I start having some serious problems with it. I'm definitely not against just letting the heads go then putting studs in and all that but with 300k miles, I feel I would be better off just buying a crate 6.0 and building that up. I may end up doing that anyway depending on what kind of info I can get out of you guys.

What I really want to do is swap a 6.7 cummins with a g56 manual trans into my truck. I've done research on this but everything I've seen has been on 05 and up trucks which have a different front end suspension setup and a lot more clearance. However, I've also read that the 6.7 and 5.9 are identical in size (or at least very close) and I know people have swapped 5.9s into a bunch of trucks, including ford 150 and 250s all the way back to 84. So I imagine fitting the 6.7 engine wouldn't be an issue but I could be wrong. In addition, the swaps I've seen have used the 5r110 automatic transmission or the zf6, both from Ford. I've briefly read about the g56 and zf6 and their differences. From my understanding the zf6 has its own cooling circuit but other than that, there isn't much difference as far as performance, strength or shift quality (please correct me if I'm wrong). I wouldn't be doing any serious towing so the zf6 cooling benefits wouldn't really play a role with me, but the only reason I'm leaning more towards the g56 is because I don't feel like spending $800 on an adapter plate to mate the 6.7 to the zf6, if I can just use the g56.

I know that some of you may think this idea is stupid, and I accept that. But I think it would be fun and would definitely be something different. As long as it's possible, I want to do it. My plan is to buy a low mile used engine with all components (injectors, turbo, harness, etc), manual trans and transfer case. I've found 1 on ebay that fits that exact description (maybe too good to be true, I'll have to inquire about it). With the engine out, I would go ahead and do studs and any other upgrades I had the money to do at that time before the install. My goal is obviously to have a power house, nothing crazy, 600 hp or so if it goes as planned. It won't really be used for towing anything heavy, maybe a car trailer every now and then but nothing major or frequent. Mostly it would be a nice toy that I can also use for work.

Again, I know some of you may think it's stupid, I get it. But I would really like some input on the idea. I know a lot of guys prefer the 5.9 due to the simplicity but I would really like to entertain the 6.7 idea as my first choice, then go to the 5.9 if the those plans fall through. Do you guys think fitment would be an issue, even though the 5.9 and 6.7 are supposedly quite close in size? Should I use the g56 manual trans or the zf6? To me it would make more sense to just use the g56 unless there are benefits/reasons to go another route that I'm overlooking. I'll be doing all the work myself, my plan is to get the engine and trans, doing any upgrades while everything is out, finding conversion engine/trans mounts if I can or fabricating my own if need be, getting custom driveshafts made to fit the truck, then bolting it all up. From there I'll have to wire up the gauges and tie in the ecm/harness to work with the Ford, then get some aftermarket tuning to wrap it all up.

I'm not looking to get slammed or insulted here, just want some honest opinions and hopefully helpful information. I'm aware that a 5.9 swap will be easier, and it may be more practical but I'd like to at least look into the 6.7 swap first. And just to clear the air, the only reason I'm entertaining these ideas is because the truck has some sentimental value (my girlfriends dad sold it to me for next to nothing and I want to keep it, not turn around and sell it and make money off of it after he basically gave it to me), and to me, it makes more sense to just spend 10 to 15 grand on a swap and have the engine and manual trans I want in my current truck, as opposed to going out and spending 30 to 50 grand on a newer truck. And before you ask why I need a truck in the first place, I'll give you a quick, simple answer: I don't. I don't use it for work and I rarely use it for towing. But I've found that the times I do "need" the truck, I'm certainly glad that I have one. And the fact that it won't be used as a daily or workhorse is also why I want to put a modified, hopefully high powered cummins in it.

So, what do you guys think? [Terribly sorry for the long post, I just wanted all the details spelled out. ]
-originally posted in cummins forum then in the ford-truck forum but was told I would have better luck posting here.

 

One thing to think about it that the 6.7 has more emission stuff to worry about, unless you are able to get an off road tune for it and delete it.

 

I think your budget is going to be one problem. There are a few sites out there that sell you parts you will need, you are looking at about $4-6k in parts, that does not include the engine or transmission. Then you have to either adapt your transfer case to the new tranny or buy one. Then you have to route your exhaust and possibly reroute your turbo if it doesn't work in the current location. New drive shafts, ect. How mechanically inclined are you? Can you do all the custom modifications yourself, or are you going to outsource parts of it? The expenses are going to add up fast. Not to mention that the complexity of a 6.7 electronic Cummins is not as simple as the old 12v motors. Google 'Bluehorse cummins", you will see just how extensive these projects can be.

 

Update

So I'll be getting a drop in 6.7 out of a 2011 5500 with 26k miles. I'm using the zf6 transmission so I can reuse the transfer case from my auto. I'm getting an adapter plate from destroked, along with their motor mount kit to mount up the engine and trans. I'll be doing a southbend clutch to hold up to 600 hp so I have room for modifications after the swap is complete. I'll use the stock computer from the 6.7, hardwire into the Ford cluster to have my gauges work, "omitting the installation" (or lack thereof) of the emissions equipment which I'll pair with efilive tuning to have the truck run without scr, dpf and egr. I'll be installing arp studs before putting the engine in and any other modifications I can afford at the time. Doing all the work myself aside from the driveshaft customization. I plan on sending them out after I mock it all up to have them cut and balanced to fit the new drive train. Drop in engine - $7k, zf6 - $1600, clutch - hopefully under $1500, tuning - hopefully under $1k. Still need to find a flywheel to replace the flex plate since the engine used an auto trans. The actual fitment will be pretty straight forward I imagine. My struggles right now I think will be deciding how to integrate the two harnesses to have the Ford and Dodge electronics to work together, and keeping the build under $12k (after selling the parts I don't use along with my current engine and trans).

 

Spending 12k on 300k mile 04? Interesting. Seems like there must be some better options... You could buy an 05-07 for 12k... You could sell your 04 for 8k and have 20k to put toward a new truck...

 

The reason I don't want to sell it is because the truck has some sentimental value as I stated previously. Aside from that, say if I did decide to just sell my truck for 8, and had an additional 12 to play with. I'd still have to pay at least an additional 10 grand for a decent vehicle with low miles. The only vehicles I'm interested in would be a newer m3 or a newer diesel pickup, both of which would be between $30 and $50k. To me it makes more sense to just put 12k into mine and have a solid drive train in my current truck. Overall the truck is in decent shape anyway, it doesn't really have any dents and the scratches are minor and can be buffed out. The bed is starting to rust but I planned on replacing that with a bed from a newer body style anyway down the road. This may not seemake practical to the average person but I'd like to keep the truck. And as much as I like the 6.0, I don't really feel like building up a 300k mile engine, especially not with a 300k auto trans. Idc what anyone says about the 5r110, unless you build it up, it doesn't hold up to high power. I'm probably only putting down 350 to 400 at the wheels, if that, and the shifts aren't very crisp. If I were to add any more power I know it will slip and burn up immediately. Which is why I want a zf6. But even if I just stick with the 6.0 for now and do a zf6 swap, I'm still looking at 1500 for the trans, 800 for the adapter plate, 1000 for the clutch, still would have to figure out the driveshafts and whatever else it took to fabricate the floor and wire it all up. On top of that I'd have to either do studs and gaskets and possibly rebuild my current 6.0, or buy a crate 6.0 with the internals I want with studs already installed, which would still cost almost as much as a drop in 6.7.
Long story short, there are many alternatives and options I could choose, but they're all going to cost about the same in my opinion. The only difference would be the amount of time and work I'd have to put into it, the 6.7 swap obviously being the most time consuming out of all of them. I haven't made a final decision yet, there's still a lot of planning and research for me to do. But either way it will cost money so it's just a matter of how fast I want to get started and how much time I'm willing to put into it.

 

I didn't realize there was any sentimental value, can't really replace that. That's still just a lot of cash to spend on that particular year and miles.

My 02. cents would be just get that truck running and driving and keep it for it's sentimental value. Then find a different truck for your daily driver/project. For 12k you can buy a 05-07 crew cab lariat 4x4 with half the miles and get the updated 6.0, facelift, suspension, brakes, hubs, etc of the 05-07 trucks. If you look hard enough you could probably even find one thats already studded for that price. But they are all over.

2006 Ford F-250 Super Duty Lariat 4WD

Keep us posted if you end up doing that swap.

 

Be sure you don't need the gauge cluster with that 6.7 as some of the new ones are hard coded to the cluster just like they are to the ECU.

 

I'll be hard wiring the crank sensor into the cluster for the tach, and since I'm using a Ford trans I'll be able to just plug and play the speed sensor. My 04 doesn't come with a boost sensor anyway so I'll just use an a pillar Guage set for boost and anything else I need. The only thing I won't be able to get is the mileage if the cluster is coded to the engine, but I don't really care about that right now. A lot of this stuff I'll have to figure out as I go. Unfortunately with swaps, especially when you're putting a newer engine in an older vehicle, there's only so many things you can plan for. With everything else it'll be a hard learning experience. I don't have to worry about any can communication because luckily, Ford and Dodge are pretty far behind on electrical technology. The abs module doesn't work with the engine in my truck so traction control is out of the picture, whereas if I was doing this to a newer truck, there would be can communication between the engine and abs due to traction and stability intervention. The only sensors that the engine requires to run are for the engine and emissions components. The emission stuff is out of the picture and everything else will be hard wired into their respective outputs. For example, alternator to battery, starter to ignition switch, crank sensor to tach, temp sensor to cluster, etc. The biggest part will be integrating the harnesses to make it look factory, and tie in the a/c, cooling and vacuum lines. As far as fitment and general operation of the swap in general, I'm not too worried about that. The real challenge will be the cosmetic and auxiliary parts. But we'll see. I still have a lot of thinking and planning to do

 

Definitely respect the input. As much as I prefer the updated suspension on the newer 6.0, I don't think that will be a deal breaker. The rest, like the face-lift and updated engine, doesn't really concern me. If I really want a newer look I'll just get a newer bed and front end conversion brackets to get that new look, and as I said before, if I want a nice 6.0 engine, I'll have to put just as much into that as a 6.7. Without the headaches and conversion parts obviously. I still don't know if I'm going to go through with it yet but if I do, I'll be sure to do a build thread. Either way I'm sure I'll be doing something rather interesting with the truck