Have to repeat this in this for this thread one more time:
Sorry but I cannot remember the source.

The Tstat is an essential part of the cooling system because it also create back pressure, which in turn raises the boiling point even further, which prevents spot boiling in areas adjacent the combustion chamber.

 

Torqueking, sit down open your ears and) listen to what I'm saying. Have you ever taken you truck (V8 engine) and drove it in a 112* weather off-road only moving 5 m.p.h., with virtually no air flow through the radiator besides teh fan, and the engine revving to 3000 r.p.m. Well I do just that in my 1990 Bronco every weekend. Before I put in the 160* thermosstat this truck would over-heat with the a/c on sitting in traffic. By the way my truck has the 4-row high capacity radiator. As soon as I replaced the 195* thermostat with the 160* one, my truck's temp. gauge won't move past the first line, no matter how I drive it!!!

Bottom line is putting in a 160* thermostat solves cooling issues. YOu guy's just won't admit to it no matter what anyone says!!!!

 

Ha, Ha, ha! This is beginning to remind me of a tag team, pro wrestling match, Bronco351 and jdb1937 in the Red Corner- and the entire field in the blue corner! Looks like the red corner knows how to run an engine and get it to run right!

The facts are: everyone wants to be the one to have the last say- so they are the one that is right. But the last say is what we have been saying all along- esp on carbureted engines and on EFI engines too if emissions controls arent so important: if you want long engine life- you run the 160 stat. If the weather is hot year around, no stat will do ya just fine. My 1993 Honda riding lawn mower and 1937 J.D. are just fine with no stat at all.

 

B351-

Sounds like you had a bad thermostat, probably a Stant (I hate those, -use RobertShaw).

Do you have a fan shroud?

Do you have a stock type thermostatic fan?

Do you have an aftermarket flex fan?

What type of water pump, is it new or old, was the belt tight? When was it last replaced?

Does your vacuum advance work properly?

Is the radiator support intact?

Are the air baffles in place?

Do you have a stock airbox or an open element?

If everything was correct in your vehicle it should not have overheated under the conditions you listed. Installing the 160 did not solve your real engine cooling problems.

At the same time as your vehicle was "overheating" tens of thousands of other vehicles running under those same conditions with STOCK thermostats and stock cooling systems did not overheat, -ergo you have other problems with YOUR Bronco.


jdb-

The problems with that GM engine are legendary, the 160 stat was just a band-aid. This is a Ford Truck site and problems with GM engines are not something we discuss here.

Red team is outta here!!!

 

Just thought I'd give my thoughts connecting a couple of jbd and bronco351s examples and torque1st's arguments. Someone (I think torque1st) said that running with no thermostat will cause the water to boil around water jackets and warp the iron...The truck that lasted 200,000 miles with no thermostat, could have been running hotter by less heat transfer to the water (the water temperature doesn't show this), and thus escaped being damaged. Also said, 200,000 miles with no problems...did you tear down the engine and check to see if anything had warped? It could have, and you'd never known. And as for the 2.8 GM, well, it's GM, and a time bomb motor, so not much can be said for it; it's just still ticking, waiting for the right moment to self destruct.

Another thought about the bronco overheating with a stock thermostat, and not with a 160. The old thermostat must not have been opening up, because the only difference between the thermostats is the temperature at which they open. If it were overheating with a functioning stock thermostat it should overheat with a 160 as well, because once they open, the thermostats flow the same. It's not that by putting a 160 degree thermostat in that you allow the engine to super cool itself; the thermostat merely opens at a lower temperature, and an engine with a properly functioning cooling system will keep it at the temperature that the thermostat is rated to open at.

I'm not professing this as facts, just my musings, and I just wanted to get my thoughts out there so they would stop turning in my head....

 

-Nope not me!

 

Ah, sorry about that, there have been so many posts on this thread, I can't remember who said what anymore...

 

Just think about it for a second. You're sitting in traffic, and you are not overheating because you have a 160 stat in yours, you have a lot of other cars and trucks around you that aren't overheating either. How many of those people have the basic knowledge to change a stat, or even know there in one in their car/truck. Very many? Ok, how many have 160 stats in theirs like you do? I'm guessing the % in low. Very low. With all these odds against you, car makers using factory 180-195 stats, and all the data that has been brought up, do you not even concede that there might have been some kind of problem out of the norm with our engines that the 160 stat balanced out?

 

Well, first, sitting in traffic i see quite a few overheated vehicles all the time. All it takes for a stock vehicle with a stock radiator (which is marginal at best) and stock 195 thermostat to overheat is a few bugs on the radiator- or maybe a tiny leak- just about anything that compromises the cooling system in any way at all is enough to overheat it. That is part of the message i am trying to send- i like the fact that i now have a little "fudge factor" in my vehicle. Anyone else running a stock vehicle (excepting most Toyotas and Hondas, which happen to be the most reliable vehicles out there- coincidence?) is one small step from blowing the head gasket, boiling over, etc.

Most folks dont even know there is a stat in their car. And most folks buy their car brand new, drive it 5 years till they have it paid off- then sell at 60,000- 80,000 miles, thinking they will sell it while it still is worth something, so they dont have a car completely worthless. I, on the other hand, buy all of my vehicles at 60- 80,000 miles and check compression to see if any permanent damage has been done. If the compression is good- i am confident i can buy that car- and still get it to maintain its compression for as long as i want it to- not blow a head gasket at 100,000 miles like some do.

As for the factory using 180 stats: as far as i know- and yes, i have checked, the only factory vehicles with 180 stats are toyotas and hondas. All others, including alll the Domestic brands- run 195 stats. But there is reasons for that- mechanical fans are cheaper then electric fans, (if you run a mechanical fan- you will need a 195 stat to get good heat in the winter; with an electric fan you can run a 160 stat and get good heat) and smaller radiators are cheaper then the nice, big ones that people should have in their vehicles, but surely arent put there stock.

I dont think there is any problem specific to just my engine. I think, in fact i am sure, that all engines would run better with 160 stats, although i will concede that 160 stats will slightly increase your emissions, especially in V-6 engines. I have two 4 cylinder vehicles, they both run 160 stats, and the check engine light is not on with either of them- hasnt been for a year. However, my 96 4.0 V-6 Ranger does more frequently turn on the check engine light with a 160 stat (O2 sensor) so now it is up to me to decide if i want cleaner oil, cooler and worked less hard A/C, and more power and better gas mileage, and a more reliable engine OR if i want the check engine light to stay off, and a slightly lower emission level. take care- J.D.

 

You guys are still fooling yourselves. If I was a betting man, I'd venture to say that not a single one of you has a real temperature gague on your truck, do you? Too bad that all Ford gages will stay at the same "tick" mark so long as the coolant temp is anywhere from ~150-200 deg. That's why they call them idiot gages. Strap on a real mechanical gage and then your posting will have credibility. You need to stop your pseudo-technical jargon and save it for the muffler shop, or the neighborhood pool, or anywhere somebody will listen to you and not ask any serious questions.

 

(makes the tag to Torque1st)

"and here comes Eric the moderator, the crowd is on its feet!.........."

 

STRAP ON A REAL MECHANICAL WATER TEMP GAUGE!! What do you think an Auto Meter #2333 is?? IT IS A MECHANICAL WATER TEMP GAUGE AND I INSTALL IT ON ALL MY VEHICLES RIGHT AFTER I BUY THEM!! Maybe you came in late and did not see that?? Or maybe i didnt even put that in this string, but for those that dont know- yes, i put mechanical gauges on all my vehicles when i buy them and i have yet to see a good stock cooling system. They all have to be and are upgraded, AND NOW I TAG OFF TO BRONCO351!!! BIG GUY- STEP INTO THE RING!! lol- J.D., KCK

 

I have a 180 degree thermostat, and a mechanical fan, and I have plenty of heat in the winter. The temp rating of the thermostat is merely the temperature it regulates the water to. So regardless of how hot the thermostat is, you will roughly have that temperature water running through your heater core heating the cabin, and 160 degrees is still pretty warm. Running a cooler thermostat will probably even get heat in the cabin sooner because it will allow water to circulate sooner. I would not go any lower than 180 degrees personally. A lower temp thermostat does not help cool the engine any better or any worse than a higher temp thermostat. There is a lot of merit to what Torque1st and TorqueKing are saying.

As for the vehicle manufacturers installing radiators that aren't sufficient, I think that's a load of bull. They design them to be sufficient to cool the engine they have also designed, run by the electronics they have designed, which were all designed to operate at the temperature of the thermostat they chose to install. If they didn't have enough capacity, the cost they saved by installing a small radiator would be ultimately negated by warranty claims due to overheated engines. I'm sure they put the most economical size in vehicles, because the population as a whole won't need any more cooling capacity than that.

You also say you have mechanical water temp guages in all your vehicles. Do they run at 160, or do they run hotter?

 

HI, actually I do have a aftermarket temp. gauge. My truck never gets past 178*-185*. Also no my engine doesn't have any problems that I'm covering up with the thermostat. I have a 1 year old radiator, a new fan clutch, a new fan housing, and all new radiator hoses. I did try the 195* thermostat after I first bought my truck. I replaced the stock 195* thermostat with a new 195* thermostat from pep-boys. Let me tell you taht didn;t stay in longer than a week, I couldn't use my A/C. Sitting in traffic the truck would hit 225* or more!!!! A few times it boiled over. Then I opted for the 160* thermostat and kabamm, all my problems are solved. Liek I said before the truck will not go past 185* in a 112* weather!!~!! Though I will agre with you guys on something, my heater don't work to well in the winter time since I put in the 160* thermostat.

 

An engine that overheats with a 195 will also overheat with a 160. Once a thermostat opens the flow rates thru the cooling system are equal. So at 200 the 160 will flow the same as a 195.

B351- Like I said b4, you had/have other problems with your system. You say you have a new fan shroud? -What type, right size? New radiator hoses, -are they the right ones? New fan clutch, -just because it is new doesn't mean it is working. What type of fan do you run, is it the right size? Is your pressure cap working OK? If you have the right coolant the engine has to see ~260+ to boil over.

JD- just because a few vehicles like B351's are out there overheating does not mean that the vast majority of the vehicles hitting the trail or sitting in traffic with you are overheating.

What I am trying to say here is that a 160 stat does not fix a overheat problem by itself and it is very bad for the engine. The real trick with any overheating problem is to figure out why your vehicle, that is just like another 10,000 on the road, is overheating and the other 10,000 are not overheating. When you modify the cooling system on a vehicle like you obviously have it is best to know what you are doing. Thermodynamics is a tricky subject.