Alright it's time for injectors. I've read literally everything I can find about replacing injectors and I STILL have questions. UGH!

I've owned the truck since November 2015, came with REBUILT F450 Transmission

The Truck
E99 2wd drw, F350. 350K, AUTO


I've done the following:
Upgraded to 2001 PCM (1C3F-ZD) HUGE DIFFERENCE!
TS6 chip
NEW- GP,GPR,UVCH HARNESS,IPR,ICP, block heater.
New air filter, fluids, fuel filter
Stock-exhaust, HPOP & Turbo (I believe)
Compression test COLD, BEFORE the above.
1) 350
2)320
3)340
4)330
5)340
6)340
7)350
8)260- shop believes this cylinder could come back to some degree.
No cackling at all!

Buzz test indicates only injectors 4,6, & 8 are firing when cold 40* lower.


*****Note: I've switched to 5w40 syn with ARCHOIL 9100 AFTER all the above was done! The truck actually tries to start now below freezing. Ive recorded the truck starting played it for my mechanic and he says the issue is all injectors.

The WHY:

Truck starts HARD when cold but no problem if plugged in for 60 mins. One day truck starts 12* not plugged In and the next day it flips me off.
It runs GREAT, idles GREAT especially since the ARCHOIL was added just doesn't like the cold.

Truck was bought as a tow rig for my Jeep/trailer 6000k but I would like the ability to comfortably tow 10-12,000 pounds if needed or necessary. 2500-5000+ miles year...

I do NOT want to have to do exhaust, turbo, HPOP upgrades until they wear out! The exhaust manifold and crossover tubes are leaking. And they will be addressed after the injectors are done.


So now which injectors?

Couple of questions right off the top.
1) Can I run stock 99.5 injectors in my E99?
2) YES? will I see a performance improvement?
3) NO? Why not?
4) I read one of the negatives to using a new injectors is that the poppet seat needs to re-establish itself, I believed it was mentioned that this could take two years and I'm assuming using that as a daily driver. Is that really a big deal?
5) Should I replace injector cups- shop says only if necessary??
6) Rebuild mine?
-not sure if shop would appreciate the headache.


INJECTORS I'm considering:

>SWAMPS 175/146

Pros- hp & mpg potential gains, warranty, stock HPOP/turbo will work.
Cons- recommend Regulated Fuel Return-
QUESTION- IS THE RFR REALLY NEEDED?

>New stage 1 AC SINGLE SHOT

-http://shop.fullforcediesel.com/New-94-03-Stage-1-AC-Single-Shot-NFF9403ST1.htm

>REMANS
-But who's and which ones???

> Pull mine and completely have rebuilt?
-recommendations on who??

Guys I know you're busy but I really could use your experience and expertise here. I want to do this once and be done!

Thank you!!

 

Try Jim at Rosewood diesel outstanding service and quality.
Putting late split shots will yield nothing extraordinary.
If you go with sigle shots your going to need custom tunes, poppet valve break in? Never heard that one before.
The stock exhaust flows plenty just replace the muffler with a high flowing one or remove it.
If towing and daily is your goal,and plan on keeping your stock turbo, a street friendly and towing rig would be to do stage 1's(160cc) get custom tunes your choice, upgrade your turbo compressor wheel, do e-fuel and do a turbo back 4" exhaust (less turbo lag) and you will have a perfect setup unless you plan on going higher on hp, then plan on spending a pretty pennie, and then some

 

Everything you've described in your post does NOT sound like injector problems, but rather something else.

A buzz test only checks the electrical side of the injectors, not the injectors themselves.

If they don't buzz, there's an electrical problem somewhere.

How does it run after it starts?

Bad injectors will continue to run bad, not just cause cold start issues and then run perfect afterwards.


Again, this is why I think there's something else wrong, and it very well could be electrical.

Bad injectors don't just all suddenly work one day, and not the next, and then work again, and then not. That on-off like a light switch is exactly that... electrical.


In case you are hell-bent on getting injectors, here's some answers to your questions.

Yes.

No. Because the differences in the injectors overall is negligible.

Not sure where you heard this, but run away from the person who said it.

Some people do it as a just-in-case item, but not necessary. Just if one or more does go, it's a PITA to tear everything apart all over again to fix them.

It wouldn't be any different than swapping them for remans.

 

Pocket:

The truck runs great and if plugged in starts great going to a perfect idle regardless of temps to date anyway . No chugging or knocking anymore. I'm not set on injectors just having a reliable starting truck when there's no plug around.

The reason I believe it's the injectors is because that's what the mechanic said. When I asked if he thought it was a case of Stiction he said it could very well be, because once it warms up it runs great.

Regarding poppet seating I coulda swore I read it Tugly's injector thread but of course I can find it now.

I'm open to exploring the electrical potential, however I have limited knowledge in this area.
I appreciate the help!

 

Newbie here, ever think of checking your GPR (Glow Plug Relay) and glow plugs? Not sure if that has anything to do with it just an idea.

Id also check the ender valve cover harness on both sides and the connector that leads to the engine from the frame. Mine is under the intake. Takes a 10mm socket/wrench to remove the bolt holding it on (2001 F250). Easy access after pulling airbox cover and intercooler hose on driver side. Took me maybe 15 mins.

I just checked mine and it is frayed. Explains why I had to rewire my alternator circuit due to the fuse continually frying. I suspect it is causing a knock in one of my injectors.

 

Addressing the original injector question, that right there was the key ingredient for a reply. You will have to tune down anything bigger than stock... and go easy on the stockers. I would yank that TS chip out while I was at it.

Exhaust leaks lead to high Exhaust Gas Temperatures and diminished performance on the road. If you send your injectors into Rosewood or buy new ADs or stage 1s, you will only improve your cold start - but not necessarily your power situation. Since you want to make full use of your existing stock hardware, here are the viable options I would consider in your situation:

Rosewood rebuild, then take some of the money I saved and immediately fix those exhaust leaks.

New ADs, then take out a loan and immediately fix those exhaust leaks.

New ACs, have the TS chip burned to hold way back on the reins (keep the power level down to about 60 HP above stock), then take out a loan and immediately fix those exhaust leaks.

Swamps - only if they are cheaper than new ADs or ACs - the nozzles are the limiting factor here, not the first number (the CCs). Then I would immediately fix those exhaust leaks.

You can see the pattern here.

Those ACs are the best power bump with stock hardware, but they need serious air before you really unleash them.

I propose you click the UVCH link in my signature and conduct those tests before flipping through the injector catalog. I also urge you to conduct all the Glow Plug and Glow Plug Relay tests.

 

That statement right there confirms what I was thinking. Go to a different mechanic.

The 7.3L does not suffer from stiction. That is a 6.0L problem. Completely different injector design.

 

Yeah....throw new injectors at a toasted engine.

The reason the mechanic says your #8 compression may return is because he wants you to pay for labor twice. Your compression numbers suck.

 

I spaced that part off in my reply - I was so focused on the thread title.

You do want a hot compression check to verify, but 1-7 don't look good - and #8 looks plain bad. If the mechanic is so "astute", I wonder why he didn't scratch his butt and growl out "Well there's your problem." Instead, he's all like "For a couple of grand, I'll fix you right up with some injectors."

This screams "Second opinion, if you please!" You can do your own compression test for very little cost. [LINK]

 

The OP stated that those compression numbers are cold. Were they corrected for density altitude? #8 is deffinitley bad, but the others may not be (not that it matters).

 

Ok, guys I know the COLD compression numbers don't look the best but the trucks all I got right now! As I stated in my first post the compression test was done BEFORE the work I did! I don't know if that matters. And the UCVH was a dorman the vehicle definitely had the loping of a bad harness when I listen to the before and after recording of the truck starting and running.

As stated in my first post:
I have since installed NEW OEM : GP,GPR, UCVH, ICP,IPR & BLOCK HEATER also new batteries. the truck starts and runs significantly better. If you don't think this is an injector issue then point me in another direction. Regarding the 7.3l injectors not having issues with striction, there are literally dozens of threads and videos addressing these injectors sticking?? What else can explain hard starts but great running/idle and power once it's running?

** The truck runs and idles GREAT once it's running.
No blue smoke ever, if it's COLD below 10* I'll see white but honestly not sure its actually smoke or just temp differences..

Would a scan tool like Autoenginity provide better information to diagnose what's really going on? Looks like Clay has it for around $350ish, but will it provide me more information than the same $350 would at a shop?.

I'm listening and open to suggestions but just telling the engines toast based on one test doesn't help me. To those offering assistance it's greatly appreciated!!

 

A.E. will be more accurate than an incompetent mechanic. Where are you located? You can scroll up and click the B.E.S.T. map link in Tugly's signature. That'll show you if there's a member near you who has A.E. and may be willing to scan your truck for you.

 

Thanks Brad! I'm in Colorado Springs, CO. I'll check it out.

 

Compression tests are not at all affected by any of the work you've done.

Besides compression, there are a host of other possible issues, even issues with the components you've already replaced.


It's frustrating I know, but it is difficult to diagnose issues like this on a forum. The info you provide is helpful, but not exactly conclusive. Be patient.


Just because it's on the internet, doesn't make it true. There's tons of people out there that have no clue what they are talking about. Stiction is not a 7.3L problem. Yes there can be injector issues, and those issues can appear to have similar symptoms as 6.0L stiction, but it's not stiction.


That said, the fact that it runs and idles great right after starting clearly tells all of us that it's not an injector problem. Even a 6.0L with stiction has issues idling and running until the injectors "warm up" a bit.

Don't take this the wrong way.... a tool is only as good as the person using it.


That said, there are lots of people here who can help you not only use AE, but also interpret the data correctly. Lots of people have used AE only to mis-diagnose something. So be careful. I'm not trying to insult you here, just precautionary measures. We've seen many posts in the past of this kind of stuff happening, and no one here wants to set you up for failure.

Cody is blunt, but often right. Don't take offense. All of us can only go with what limited information you can provide over a forum.


My suggestions would be to either go to another mechanic, or maybe get with someone from the forum with a proper scan tool. I no longer have AE, so I won't be of much help in person.

 

If I were in this situation, I would want that compression test verified before I did any more wheel spinnin'. If those numbers are accurate, everything else is just noise. If you conduct your own compression test with feedback from the forum, you will know for certain if you carry on... or if you start saving up for an engine swap. Think of bad compression as a rusted out frame - not much to build on.