a while back I had dodge dakota...4.7 8...Had an exhaust leak. 2 busted studs unfortunately flush with the head. After a little finagling, was able to get them out with the ol' drill and easy out. Not easy but also not super hard. So here I am with a 97 f250 ld, figuring, hmm, shouldnt be much worse then the dodge....
So, figured on starting with the driver side. Seemed easiest. fist attempted to get the nuts off that were still intact. how'd that work out for ya, you ask? lol. Even with extractor sockets, and every tool I had, no luck (not to mention soaking them a few nights before. Finally decided to get the angle grinder out.
grinded off the nuts and got the manifold off. only f ups were the grinder jumped on me and hit the oil dip stick. also, the egr tube nut was rusted completely off, where it wasn't even connected. The tube itself looked good up to the flanged end, but the manfold end completely rusted out the nut. and lastly, the connection at the manifold and the cat was rusted out. Actually looked like a previous problem, as it was held on with 2 of those c clamp looking devices. I grinded these off, as once again, rusted beyond being able to get bolts loose. Wasn't too worried as the manifold end had the seized bolts, and the cat end was fine. (plan on replacing the manifold) Anyway, so at this point I'm left with one stud that came out, 5 studs with about 3/4 inch outside head, one flush and one a little below head. And so the headache begins...
I tried in order, pb blaster soaking for a few days prior to, while attempting to remove, tried, kroil, a mapp gas torch (dont have oxy) and crc freeze, tried heat and bees wax on the stud. Tried a titan screw extractor a buddy had. I even tried tig welding on a nut to the stud. I welded at highest setting and lowest feed speed to get the effect of the heat hoping that would help break it. tried this a few times, adding bees wax to the mix. Also, tried banging the studs to free up in between attempts...even used a pneumatic nailer to bang them for a little while.
Finally, figured I'd have to drill them out and use the extractor. So far, tried this on 2 studs so far, up to a 1/4 bit, and nothings doing. Since I had 1 stud out, I was able to measure about 1 inch into the head, so I know not to go beyond that so as not to drill into any water jackets, etc. but beyond the 1/4 bit, not left with much more meat, before I hit the threads. And these were the studs I could get to with my right angle drill. Havent even tried access to other studs, but am guessing the steering lower shaft will be in my way.
So, what do you all think? lol. My fears seem to be confirming themselves, and I am having visions of helicoils dance through my head. Sound about right? I am stopping hear because if I have to re-tap, I am guessing the helicoils have their own drill bit size?...never had to use one before. and don't want to over size the drill out.
Also, am I gonna have issues with clearance?
Anyone have studs that were thios bad before, and did they have to get the engine up (maybe remove the mounts? And even still, would this give me much more to work with? Also, how do you even remove the steering shaft? I've been reading that they get locked up and you cant remove them sometimes without having to cut them.
Any help would be appreciated. I spent hours reading different threads and watching vids about removing studs and unfortunately, nothing worked in my case, so, figured I'd post a new.
Now, I just recently acquired the truck for free. She's got about 150,000 mile on her and aside from both manifolds leaking, seems to run good. I should have let her be and just dealt with the ticking and popping, but it just seemed annoyingly loud, and didn't get better when the engine got hot. figured it shouldn't be too bad a job, but now I am eating those words. lol
BTW, HAPPY NEW YEARS!!!

 

When I did manifolds on my 00' F150 I ended up having to drill out and helicoil 1 hole on the drivers side (the rear most) and it was a PITA.

The best trick to getting these out are to MIG weld a nut on and use a socket to get it out. You Mention you TIG welded (I think this was a typo), was it actually MIG? Also - was it gas shielded? If it was flux core wire, you'll never get that to work. It needs to be gas shielded MIG or TIG.

Since I didn't have a gas shielded MIG handy when I did this I used a lot of heat. I ended up cutting my manifold of in pieces (used a sawzall), then when I access to the lower studs I tried loosening em all. The front 4 came out, the remainder were rotted or snapped (left little nubs). I then found a pair of vise grips that fit in the space and got them setup to grab the remaining studs (They need to clamp so tight you can barely squeeze em on). I then Heated each the head around each one for a lonnggg time using a propane torch (oxy-acetylene would be better if you have access). The back two studs I literally heated ~ 10-15 minutes, more than once. Once everything was extremely hot I clamped on the vise grips and worked the studs loose.

Another thing you can do (I learned this recently when doing some manifolds on a different truck) is take a dremel with the "tungsten carbide" cutter (it's a ball end mill style cutter) and relief cut around the studs, where they meet the head (it doesn't take much, you're just trying to knock off the corrosion where they meet). Then proceed with heat.

As a last resort would I drill these out and helicoil... there's lots of places to screw up drilling (i.e. water jacks), and it's an unbelievably tight area to get a drill into.

 

thanks for taking the time to reply. And the dremel idea sounds like a good one. I was almost thinking of taking a sand blaster and just hitting the stud right around where it meets the head, which is very corroded, but your dremel idea sounds like a safer, more effective bet.
As far as the welding, I did make a typo (was a mig, not a tig). Flux core, which, as you mentioned, would explain why it didn't work. How come? I'm not a welder, aside from making repairs here and there with aflux core and small arc. But the welder did get the stud red hot, which I was hoping would help break it...
I was hoping that just rotating through all these ideas a few times would eventually work and break them free. I spray them everyday with blaster, I spend on average an hour with the torch and whatever else I can get in there. last attempt was an extractor that snapped in the drill out...luckily I still had some meat on the stud left where I grinded it off with some to spare. lol. but now im down to about 3 studs where I can get some vice grips on. the rest I believe I'll have to carefully drill out and helicoil. Never did it before but I guess there's a first for everything.
But PITA would just about explain it. You spend hours trying, with little if any results.
As of now, I'm waiting on a close quarter drill. I had one of those harbor freight ones, and even though it did work, still just too awkward. I believe it was about 5" wide and 11" long. Even with stubbies, had a hard time getting the angle needed to go in straight. and I also tried the pneumatic one they have, but not enough power.
But, then , my old man had a milwaukee close quarter drill he "loaned" me, and this one gave me almost 2" more width clearance and was about 6" shorter on the handle length. I think this will be the deal breaker, as it seems to allow me to get to all the studs. I say I think because when I went to use it, found out the gear was stripped and the thing wasn't working. lol. So gonna try and order a new one.

 

The issue I always had with Flux Core was that I was never able to get a great fill around/on the remainder of the stud (it was pourous and just poor contact). I've had much better results with Gas MIG, I think it really justboils down to it being a cleaner process. It might also help that I'm now using a 240 volt welder, vs a 120 Volt welder?

I ended up having to buy a small drill and short drill bits to my stud out. I bought a pnuematic drill (cheap one from walmart). Do yourself a favor and buy a few of those tungsten carbide bits for the dremel, they'll eat right through the bolts (they're like $10 each, but they're worth it). I didn't find those dremel bits until after I did my manifolds (I used them on an older F250's manifold), but they work fantastic!

I'd start with those dremel bits, make a cavity down the center of the stud, until you break all the way through. Then use left hand drill bits. Sometimes you get lucky with these and it backs what remains of the stud out (seems to happen more often when you punch a hole all the way through the stud). If you do this right, you may just have to chase the threads with a tap when you're done.

This is the dremel bit I'm talking about:
https://jet.com/product/detail/2b729...FZaRHwodgjQOAw

Good Luck, let us know how you make out!

Edit: When you're heating the area you want to minimize heat into the stud. You're really trying to heat the aluminum around the stud. I'd probably relieve cut the studs, then give em another round of heat before you drill em out.

 

Hey,
Just to update...
got about 4 studs out today, giving me a total of 5 now. Doesn't sound like much, but man, what a pain in the ***. I have to give you credit, killacal. What I did was just heat the heck out of them as best I could with a map torch and after each heating, I hit the stud with a piece of toilet bowl wax seal. Apparently this is bees wax, which I read somewhere on one of these forums. In addition, I took your advice and used a dremel (luckily had one of those bits you mentioned on hand...came in a kit I had) and grinded around where the stud meets the head. I think this was the straw that broke the camel's back. After I got one out, which I really didnt think was gonna happen, I saw the carbon build up on it was really only about maybe 3 or 4 threads down the stud, so even though its enough to make one miserable, I really think once you clear/grind around the rim, it clears it out enough for the heat and wax to get in there. On each stud, maybe I repeated this 7 or 8 times, before I got them loose. and once loose, just took my time with vice grips and would go a little bit forward. I also would go back and forth a few times while spraying it with some pb, which made the rest easier as I went...to the point where I got the rest by hand. Let me add, I also used a pneumatic hammer that I got from lowe...made for mails, but fit the stud perfectly and just banged each one a few times every so often. I am guessing this was also helpful, adding to freeing up the studs.
So, now have 3 left to do. These are the ones that were split off even or below the heads. I drilled out one so far just shy of the threads and plan on doing some relief cuts with the dremel. The extractor wasn't working, even with heat and wax.
But, again, thanks for the advice. I finally feel like i am out of the woods a little. I am sure the last 3 will be a pain, but at least I got a little confidence boost and sense of accomplishment.
So, a quick overview... this is the driver side. I originally grinded out the manifold, and removed the oil dip stick to give me better access. seemed to be enough to get some tools in there to do the job. I havent assessed the passenger side yet. I am guessing I'll have to lower the ac compressor. We shall see, but at least I got this far.

 

Good to hear you're making progress!

I seem to recall the passenger's side having more room, once unbolt the harness from the frame rail and zip-tie some tubes / lines out of the way.

Best of luck on the next side. Hopefully you can re-use some of the tricks you learned on the driver's side.

I don't know what kind of extractor you're using, but I used something like this as well on the studs closest to the front of the motor. Just do that dremel trick heat em up and extract em.

Great deal on KD Tools 41760 at ToolTopia.com

 

yeah. I fell a little more confident. After I got the first one out, I figured, well, it is possible. Only thing holding me up now is figuring out the helicoil size and the stud size. I believe the stud size is m10-1.50, and I guess the helicoil tap size will have to accommodate that size. So before I drill out, I wanna be sure what size bit for the tap.
Hey, also, I want to replace the studs with stainless, but can't seem to find stainless steel studs for sale anywhere. any recommendations.

Again, thanks for your help and advice.

 

They sell them on Rock Auto, and Autozone should stock the kit (It's a Dorman P/N).

With regards to the helicoil I bought mine at Autozone, it came with the tap and the drill bit. It was bit pricy.

You might want to check Rock Auto for studs if you have some time to wait.

 

thanks for the info. Per your suggestion, I went to autozone, and sure enough, they had the helicoil kits in stock. They're about the only auto place around here that carries them, oddly enough. By the way, the bolt/lug size for at least this particular truck (1997 f250 light duty w/ 4.6 v8 triton motor) is m8 x 1.25... for some reason, I thought it was an m10 x 1.50.
The kit was about 30 bucks, and came with the tap, the tool to install, and 3 coils..I bought an extra pack of refill coils for about 7 bucks. I'm in no major rush and could have ordered online, but didn't seem like I would save much more from the cheapest sets I found.
So, out of the 3 holes that need the thread repair inserts, I was able to get 2 in and the lug fits perfectly... I am still a little skeptical that these will handle the manifold and the heat? it just seemed too easy...lol. The last one (bottom hole furthest back) I am just shy of getting a straight line with my drill as the cat flange is in the way. Gonna see how hard (i.e. rusted) it will be to get cat off from the slip fitting at the pipe end.
Last thing I did, which of course was another P.I.T.A was getting the egr pipe off from the egr valve. Hard to get to and was pretty frozen on. Eventually came loose with some heat and muscle, but my concern was the heat...could I possibly have damaged the valve with heat?... Not sure what's insides are made of? And in an attempt to get the valve off, the 10m bolts holding it on to what I am guessing is the intake manifold, they were not budging and I definitely didnt want to mess these up or break them.
All in all, a good day...feel like I accomplished a good deal, but I will say, if you don't see me putting any more posts here, it's because I won the powerball and figured, just buy a new truck. or 100...

 

Nice!

I wouldn't worry about heat on the EGR Pipe, I had mine almost glowing red when I removed it (I bought a new EGR pipe from Rock Auto and installed it). The helicoils will be fine and should hold up well.

That last one is the one I had to drill out... It was a PITA and I didn't get it completely straight (I can see a little light under the top outer edge of the nut, between it and the manifold). Even with that the manifold sealed up fine.

Keep at it, you'll get her done!

 

hey,
Just wanted to put up a final post and let ya know job is done. Did it a few days ago and sounds like a new truck. I got the egr tube on and no lights came on, so that was good. Appreciate all the help and advice. I think my saving grace was the dremmel with the bit you recommended, especially on the studs that broke off inside head. I think what makes or breaks this job is just having the right tools and patience. I didn't really need to move anything except the oil dipstick, which I accidentally grinded into. So if anyone out there is willing to take the grinding off the manifolds route, I would say it is possible and makes the job much easier, by giving you better access to the studs, which for me at least were beyond getting off with the manifold on and had to be removed with access to heat up the head directly and grind out some of the corrosion where the stud and the head meet to get studs out. The lifesaver tools were the dremel with hard metal bit and the right angle (close quarter) drill.
Now it's on to the next one... I got that old familiar click of a dying starter the other day, and although it started working again after a few taps with a hammer, figure my next project is change that out before I get stuck somewhere other then my driveway.
Also noticed, and I know these things are off the original topic, but I get a shake that starts at about 50-55 mph. I figure let me rotate the tires and see what that does. Well, after doing that, I got a new not so much a shake but a shimmy at 40 mph in addition to the shake at 55. So I am guessing the tires need to be balanced, but the shake at 55 stayed the same regardless, so I am guessing maybe the driveshaft? or ujoints? read a few posts so far that seem to lead to that.
Anyway, this is just a project truck that I am having fun with and really only use it locally (i.e no need to go over 40)
Once again, though, thanks for all your help. I was getting worried at the beginning that I got myself into a situation, but your tips definitely helped me finish the job.

 

Glad to hear it worked out for you.

Not enough info for me to troubleshoot the vibration. You can isolate it to the drive line (i.e. make sure it's not a stumble or in trans) by putting it in neutral while it's vibrating. If it goes away, then it's not in the drive train. If it stays, then you should be able to find a sloppy u-joint or something. Make sure you check the lugs too... it could be a simple as you left em a little loose.

 

I'll have to give that a try next time I'm out with it. We just got dumped with about 20 inches of snow, so I was looking forward to using the 4wd...lol. first off, hard as heck to get it to shift (this one is the shift on the floor, not button). Got under and pb blasted the heck out of the linkage. It freed up pretty nice, but still no 4wd. Got tired of trying to do all this in a snow storm, so waited till this morning. Started with the easiest...checked fuse...good. Checked the vacuum solenoids, and the 4wd one seemed like it wasn't opening. pulled it and bench tested it and still wasnt opening. Went to autozone, had a new one in stock, which was retrofitted with a new enclosure to protect from water ( I guess these are notorious for getting moisture damaged). $25 bucks, popped it in, and got 4wd!!! nice. I had to scratch my head when I finished, thinking, Man, that was just too easy. lol.
When I get a chance, to stay true to the purpose of these forums, I'll post a new thread about the shake and shimmy and let you know, but when I get a chance, I did want to post some pics of the manifold job. like tools and stuff that worked, maybe it will help someone out there...

 

I'm doing the manifold change too, previous owner tried patch repairs to make it last as long as he could its only an f150 but 4.6l 4x4, mines on the floor also I was wondering how I could loosen the shifter

as for the manifolds im on hold to get a close quarter angle drill as we tried getting one out and i know its probably easier to hack them off in pieces ,weld on nuts to get them out, and tap and reverse drill bit them if needed for the ones that break off flush, I like the dremel idea where the studs meet the head trick will try that too thanks for the updates guys

the only good thing was the price in total for both manifolds and all studs and gaskets after shipping and duty from USA ended up being $260CAD
locally they are $257 each without gaskets or studs :-o

they are a real mess...





nice o2 sensor leak!


see the patches? lol

 

I'm going to have nightmares after just seeing those pictures....

Cut them off with a sawzall and give yourself room to work on the rotted studs... you're going to need it.